MYSTIFIED BY COOK COUNTY SHERIFF
Cites Record of Cooperation with Illinois Law Enforcement
San Francisco, CA - March 6, 2009 - “Frankly, Sheriff Dart’s actions mystify me,” said craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster, referencing the private civil suit filed against the online service yesterday by the Cook County (Illinois) Sheriff.
Buckmaster explained that “in mid and late 2007 we had very positive communications with the Cook County Sheriff’s Department, in which we explained how “erotic services” came to be, the purposes it is intended to serve, and the statutes that support our right to operate as we do.
“Since then, we have not only initiated multiple new measures to further reduce misuse of our website by anyone intending criminal activity, we also reached an agreement with 40 state attorneys-general, including Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, about an enforcement plan designed to protect the public from those who would misuse our site.”
And yet, inexplicably, Sheriff Dart apparently bypassed the Illinois Attorney General’s office, and filed this complaint through a private law firm.
“As our counsel explained to Sheriff Dart’s Department in 2007, craigslist cannot be held liable as a matter of clear federal law for content submitted to the site by our users.” Buckmaster pledged to defend vigorously the lawsuit brought by the Sheriff.
Buckmaster further pledged craigslist’s continuing commitment to helping law enforcement officers nationwide locate and rescue victims and put criminals in jail. “We assist police forces all over the country, including members of Sheriff Dart’s department,” says Buckmaster. “The vast majority seem to understand that craigslist is part of the solution when it comes to combating terrible crimes like human trafficking and child exploitation.”
“They know and appreciate that we are working very hard to eliminate misuse of our site and provide assistance with their investigations, and for that understanding we are very grateful.”
March 6th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Applauding Craigslists efforts in forging ahead in finding the right balance of liberty and controls.
They are innovators in policy, and business model, and technology that make us all much safer and more connected using the internet.
March 6th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Law enforcement’s argument is simply not valid. Craigslist is clearly being more proactive than, say, the companies publishing your local “yellow pages” telephone books.
In the 1990’s I was employed for two escort services in New York City, both of whom had full-page ads in the yellow pages here. I don’t recall the law enforcement community ever uttering a peep about it. And Rudy Giuliani was mayor.
On Long Island, where my parents live, Newsday, the only daily newspaper there regularly runs ads for “massage services”. Law enforcement there raids a couple of these establishments about once every two years and makes a point of releasing statements to the local press. No prosecution for Newsday.
We fear the new, the different; it is our nature. Craigslist is, unfortunately, going to have to deal with it until the courts rule otherwise, which they will undoubtedly do.
March 6th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Inexplicable is the name of the game in Cook County politics. Rest assured Craigslist team, not all Chicagoans are this myopic.
March 7th, 2009 at 8:03 am
Perhaps it is not the best of ideas to have a section marked “erotic” . Seems to me this is just asking for problems . I have nothing against what consenting adults do , however , I would not want my children to have such easy access to the material found in that section .
March 7th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I used to think craigs list was the best thing that ever happened.I do not feel that way anymore.You people have just openly become cyber pimps,giving these whores a place to selicit and for free.You are responsible for tearing a 17 year marriage and my family apart.I know this commet will never get posted but I just want you to know I will do everything in my power to see to it you are boycotted by the people on this earth that do have morales and have a consience for what this site has done to numerous people. Clean up you act.I do websites also so now that this is all breaking news Maybe people will see that all you are is cyber pimps.I am looking to be the first real law suit against you for ruining my life and the life of my children.
March 7th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Hey, just out of curiosity, I know that revenues from the erotic ads get donated to charity — which charity is it they go to? thanks.
March 8th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Gooooooooo Craislist……..fight this little man, I think he couldn’t get off with some hottie he found on Craigslist………just a little man with something to prove……..he will lose
March 8th, 2009 at 10:09 am
My bet is that Sheriff Dart is just being politically savvy. By attempting to sue Craigslist and making such unsubstantiated claims he is drawing attention to the problem that will hopefully build public pressure to see that the Sheriff’s department gets more taxpayer funding to attack the problem. I truly hope he does get more funding from the state to address the problem, but not from Craigslist, that would be like suing automobile manufacturers because their cars are so often used in crimes.
March 8th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
It’s hard to know what the thinking is from the perspective of this Sheriff. My first thought is (like many mentioned) what about the phone book? Not to mention the newspaper, television (singles lines, hook up lines) & so called dating sites. Jeez, I could point to many more, far more, troubling examples of real, in your face, advertising. I have noticed and tried to discuss with others something about many sites (craigslist.org being just one) but meet opposition to the solution. I can never tell if it is bureaucracy or if it’s that I am an individual and not a large business, agency or connected insider.
Maybe in Cook County they don’t have Phone books, Newspapers or bathroom walls?
I would be more than happy to help Sheriff Tom Dart (if you are reading this, I have a reasonable consulting fee) make a positive out of what seems to be an attempt to fill Cook County coffers by filing a civil suit for $100,000 to compensate for man hours they pay police to investigate “alleged” criminal services.
Do due (yeah having fun with a pun) diligence. If I can see a solution to these e-solicitations (wink wink, nod nod) surprised others haven’t.
Then again, were anyone to have followed my suggestions in the past, and began making correlations between visiting _______ & visiting prostitutes, there would have been more (and maybe bigger) scandals in the news than Elliot Spitzer’s faux pas.
March 9th, 2009 at 7:44 am
This is just an extension of the long history of law enforcement’s efforts to criminalize all the relationships that surround erotic labors. It was US West Yellow Pages back in the 1980’s. 20 years from now it’ll be some other media outlet. The first amendment has to be respected and CL didn’t respect themselves in the first place when they made that agreement under threat of criminal action by those 39 state attorney generals.
If you lay down with dogs….
Craigslist has fees.
Look Master Jim Buckmaster, you are now demystified!
March 9th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
There are so many angles from which to approach the articles that are currently being published regarding the adult entertainment industry and craigslist.com that this writer, who happens to be an avid fan and customer of craigslist, and a phone sex operator, isn’t quite sure where to begin.
So with as much passion as a particular public official, Chicago Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart is making his statement about craigslist by suing them, this responsible, equally important citizen is going to express her views in order to balance the scales of justice and make certain the general public has the opportunity to see a less political, more realistic, well-rounded truth of not only craigslist, but other issues surrounding the world in which we live, the adult services offered, and supply and demand.
Let’s take this cake one bite at a time by beginning with this issue of prostitution. I will begin by clarifying there is a huge difference between illegal activities and the phone sex operator industry. There is nothing illegal about advertising the service I offer. The company who employs me, Phone Sex Kingdom, has been in business ten years, is very reputable, and has a zero tolerance for anything illegal. We are arguably the best in the business. Although you won’t hear me argue that. I wouldn’t associate with a company who misleads, mistreats, or abuses our laws.
That being said let’s put some very clear perspective on how many sites Mr. Dart might want to consider suing if he gives much consideration to where the opportunities for prostitution begin.
Why not just start with the window of the internet alone, then go from there? This is being written from first-hand experience. Let’s address these dating sites, and remember many of them are endorsed by conservative, professionals, who are well-known. Men and women go on everything from well-meaning free dating sites to the more, in your face sites, that go far beyond basic dating services. People may have long term, dating, or friends listed. Or they may have alternative lifestyles or married but looking.
I personally have blocked out anything beyond dating or long term because I want someone who is at the same place or looking for something similar to what I’m looking for. But then when you meet this person who has painted himself to be an upstanding, 43 year old gentleman, and he turns out to be a 53 year old party animal looking for a “piece” isn’t that misleading? But is it the fault of the site owner that Joe Nice has turned out to be Joe Dirt Bag who wants to know my favorite position (and I don’t mean political) before he knows my last name, my dog’s name, or what I like to do during the Summer? No! It is our responsibility as consumers to beware.
Now let us take a second bite of the cake and address the broad, truth about what “prostitution” really is in life. Merriam-Webster sums it up as the following: 1) the act or practice of engaging in promiscuous sexual relations especially for money (note: not just for money) 2) the state of being prostituted : debasement
Broken down a little further, which is certainly necessary. Debasement is to lower in status, esteem, quality, or character. Surely a politician with ambition has never or would never lower himself to such a position! Prostitution takes on many forms and it’s not always the trading of money for sex between strangers. Quite frankly it’s my view that most intimate relationships share in prostitution.
“Honey, if you bring home the bacon you can have sex every other night.”
Wife to Husband, it may be unspoken but it holds water, “You didn’t take out the trash, thank me for dinner, or buy me that ring I wanted so you’re going without this week.” Bold? Absolutely! Is there truth in my thoughts?
Many of you would choke on your own tongue before you admit it in Lady’s Bible Study, but you know I’m right. And for the men reading this, you’re probably thinking I’ve hit the nail on the head. But I can’t help but wonder if you would be brave enough to discuss this with your wife, girlfriend, or teach your college student that these are the cold, hard facts of life!
Another nibble of cake. Yes, as a phone sex operator I do receive calls on a daily basis asking if I offer “in service” or “out service”. That is because the consumer has failed to read the large print on my ad that clearly states “I do not escort so don’t even ask”. I make my money legally and it is up to someone, who seeks me out by the way, to either accept my services or reject them. I work with my brain, not on my back.
For those who may not agree with phone sex services allow me the opportunity to expose the views that many of us who are in this line of business and our clients share. The men who use phonesexkingdom.com range from the legal age of 18 to men in their 70’s.
Yes, some are young. But if they are old enough to sign the dotted line at the post office to fight for and die for their country then they are of consenting age. Many of our callers are happily married men who would rather use our phone sex service than to cheat on their wives who have lost interest in sex. Many are lonely, or people who have been hurt. Some have tastes that step outside of what the average American (whomever that may be) considers the norm. But if they’re calling us, expressing their most intimate desires, we are prepared, educated, intelligent, women who are meeting their needs. Supply and demand.
You can pass judgment on whether what I do for a living is right or wrong because we all have opinions. But come on people, let’s draw a line in the sand of when it’s time for politicians to stay out of our lives!
Craigslist.com has provided the information up-front to policing officials. They have not hidden information. This is a profitable business that is following the rules and someone who is seeking higher ground politically wants to cost him his business in a time when our economy is hurting like most of us have never seen in our lifetime.
If he’s going to clean house he might want to start sweeping every bar, casino, restaurant, dating web-site, massage parlor, and every other public place where men and women are propositioned on a daily basis.
Don’t believe me? Take a trip to your nearest casino on a weekend night, watch those women who are being handed stacks and stacks of chips by out of town business men, then follow them. And while you’re monitoring, look for that gold band on his left hand, then check out her empty ring finger.
About 10 years ago I met a very meek, mild-mannered, elementary school teacher who was trying to raise two daughters after her husband died. At that time she confided in me that, in her small town, she was advertising on another very popular website, prostate massages for $100, because she felt desperate about feeding her girls and maintaining the mortgage she was left with. If you think a prostate massage was all those men in big, fine homes, who drove the best of cars was getting, you might want to re-think this situation that was never brought out. I can’t help but wonder if it was because at that time that particular site didn’t charge to advertise personals.
For the final bite of cake, let me add another personal experience that is as true as the sky is blue. When I first moved to this state and was working in a very advanced position for a well-known financial institution I was approached in a national chain restaurant by a man and woman who were quite a bit older than me. He worked for the Governor of the state in which I reside, who happened to be Republican. She is now an elected Republican official in this very same state. So be careful if you believe there are partisan lines here that are left-wing, because that is not the case at all. Yes, I’m telling you that two, married Republicans are swingers. Do the politicians really want to dance this dance with the adult entertainment industry?
Take care of the individuals who are breaking laws, but there is no need to kill the messenger who has been forthcoming in providing whatever information the police have asked for in breaking up illegal activities. Craigslist.com has played by the rules.
There’s always icing on the cake so in closing I will suggest to you, the reader, to look into countries where certain activities are legal and check out some of their statistics, divorce rates, political, police, and incarceration spending. Perhaps it is time for our basic “checks and balances” to be re-checked.
Bailey Addison, PSO, http://bailey.phonesexkingdom.com/
http://phonesexkingdom.com/
March 9, 2009
March 9th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Interesting interview with Tom Dart on NPR, and also a few comments on the article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101561684
Interviewer asks, “What’s the great difference between an online site with classifieds and newspaper classifieds?”
And Dart replies, “one of it is they have specifically tailored their site to facilitate it [prostitution]… unlike an ad where people put content in, they have an opportunity to put content in specific sub-categories depending on what it is you like, and then within the sub-categories the photographs … this is not something where under anyone’s interpretation you could say this is an escort service, the photographs are either naked or semi-naked, quite often showing sex acts in addition to which they actually lay out the prices as to how much they charge for different acts for how long a period of time they are; none of that is in any other — it’s not allowed in any other newspaper that I’ve ever seen…”
Some of what Dart says is true, especially about the pictures. By the “letter of the law” many of the posts may not be direct solicitations for prostitutes, but it’s pretty clear that there are loaded meanings behind abbreviations like “HH” and “HR” — with prices — using the word “kisses” instead of currency. I personally think it’s hard to make the argument that these ads are carefully filtered, because even the most inexperienced auditor would quickly see what’s going on.
On the other hand, Dart’s argument about the newspapers and Craig’s list categories is off base. “Erotic Services -> w4m” is not explicitly for prostitution, any more than the “personals” or even “escorts” section of your local news paper.
And this brings us to the main point: Do we sue newspapers who have published ads for escort services that turn our to be prostitution services? Did our police departments sue the newspapers in Beverly Hills for running Heidi Fliess’ ads? Do we sue hourly-rate hotels where prostitutes and johns go to complete transactions? The makers of the automobile the john uses to pick up the prostitute?
OR do we go after the prostitute herself, and the John himself?
Craig’s list isn’t allowing anything not available elsewhere. Furthermore, used by the police well, Craig’s list has proven to be nothing other than a useful tool for law enforcement.
Dart is just doing this for attention, and he’s getting plenty. Welcome our next senator.
March 10th, 2009 at 3:39 am
I THINK THIS IS A WELL WRITTEN WELL INFORMED ARTICLE…I DONT BELIEVE THE SHERIFF UNDERSTANDS THAT PHONE SEX IS A LEGITIMATE BUSINESS AND IS NOT A HOUSE OF PROSTITUTION..MAYBE HE SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THE POLITICIANS THAT HAVE BN CAUGHT IN THE ACT EITHER WITH THEIR OWN SEX OR ANOTHER..PHONE SEX IS THE SAFEST SEX THERE IS ALSO..NO DISEASES WELL RESPECTED LADIES THERE.SO HE SHOULD TAKE A GOOD LOOK AND TRYING NOT TO FURTHER HIS CAREER AND TAKE A LOOK AT COOK COUNTY CORRUPTION NOT SOMEONE WHO IS OPERATING A SUCESSFUL BUSINESS
March 10th, 2009 at 6:39 am
[…] for Missing and Exploited Children. Jim Buckmaster, who noted in a previous post that he was mystified by Dart’s lawsuit, said the company has been remiss in touting its progress on curbing illegal activity. Buckmaster […]
March 10th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Obviously there has to be more to this story because I do not believe that Sheriff Dart would file the lawsuit if it was not valid. I mean come on, this person is in Law Enforcement I hardly think this person is dumb when it comes to law.
This is a comment to a post from Linda Stiel. I am sorry I have to defend craigslist on your comment. It is not craigslist fault for your marriage going under. No one told your husband to go in the “erotic” section and have an affair or whatever he did to ruin your marriage on their site. You can not file a lawsuit against them for your husband’s negligence. File the lawsuit against your husband for committing adultry that is what divorce court is for.
As far as craiglist not having morals, it is your husband that does not have any morals for cheating on you.
For that matter you better go and check every other adult website and see what else your husband has been doing because I am almost positive craigslist was not the only site he has been on, it is the only one you caught him on.
April 3rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
This is getting REALLY OLD!
Parents - it is your duty to monitor what your children are doing on the internet!!! If you are too lazy, or just don’t care, don’t blame anyone but yourself for their mistakes.
Bitter Women - It’s time you got over it! If you weren’t such prudes, your husbands wouldn’t go looking elsewhere. If you can’t spell such words as solicit, but hookers can spell it. Craigslist didn’t ruin your life, or the life of your kids, there was a reason that your hubby stepped outside of the marriage for companionship and a little attention.
Law Enforcement - Go after the pimps, and traffickers, and legalize and tax this trade!
Craigslist - Thanks for the great site!!!!!!!
April 18th, 2009 at 9:29 am
it’s to bad that people trust other people.you have to use good judgment on your part to keep safe in this world today.there are nutty people out there .use the brain god gave it to you so use it.it’s sad that a person died but it’s not craigs list fault.all the info is in front of the front page.again we need to be alert on every one and every thing.so be save and use good judgment .
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Craigs list is great..and poses no more threat than an ad in your local newspaper. I’ve met many nice people, trading, selling and buying from this site. I’ve met losers too. My only problem was those who disrespected my property by throwing their trash, butts, cans, etc. on to it and letting their “untrained MONKEY-KIDS” loose. No-one ever approached me in a sexual manner, but I can’t say the same for some neighbors and extended family members. So..DON’T BLAME THE SITE..(EVEN HAPPENS IN CHURCH)..The NUTS are everywhere!
April 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Linda Stiehl I am so sorry to hear of what happened to your family, but you can’t hold craigslist responsible for your husbands inability to keep his weener in his draws. There a thousand other ways he could procure a prostitute. I hope you find peace.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
After reading about this in the newspaper, I must agree with Mr. Buckmaster, our resources & Sheriff Dart’s time, would be much better spent focusing upon serious criminal enterprises. I have lived in Cook County for a number of years & with all the problems we face the urgency to address our real concerns becomes apparent. Recently, the governor of Illinois and the county itself has made overtures to lower costs by decreasing the penalty for possesion of small amounts of marijuana & provide the option of home confinement for low level offenders. Good! This could help alleviate the pressure at overcrowded Cook County jails that house relatively “minor” offenders & dramatically lower the need for staffing. Further, we might review the “draconian” security force at the county courthouses, where they patrol the parking lot for traffic offenders, & refuse to allow a “magic marker” through the gauntlet preceding the metal detector. The need to reduce expenditures, streamline, & lower human overburden remains explicit. Cook County & the City of Chicago’s payroll reminds me of the old joke about how many people it takes to change a light bulb. Sheriff Dart’s lawsuit remains an attempt to seek publicity & at the same time misdirect our attention away from the pressing issues at hand.
The expansion during the “boom”period has left us with an unwieldy, politically charged, power base designed to insulate those connected to it against expulsion by hiding behind their large infrastructure. Now that public officials, including Sheriff Dart, face intense scrutiny, their efforts to distract attention away from this buildup has intensified. Everpresent scandals at all levels of government, served up nightly by the swarming media correspondents eager to gain viewership, highlight the situation. Corruption & moral impotence regarding contracts, hiring qualified people, police tactics etc., demostrate a lack of effective leadership. One of the retorts I hear regularly is “Well, It’s a big city, county, whatever, we can’t watch everyone, whattya gonna do?” So, let me get this straight you either 1. Dont know about it. Or 2. Are lying. So you are either incompetent or a lair, I can take my pick. Should I really abide by their claim of ignorance? Perhaps they don’t wish to know. That would appear to be a more convincing argument to me.
If Sheriff Dart wants our support he must confront the county’s budget issues directly. Should he not concentrate his efforts & resources on more serious criminal activity? Targeting bookies, massage parlors, strip clubs, narcotic dealers, & surprisingly visible targets would demonstrate, at least to me, that he is more professional & committed. Many “organized” criminals are too content, comfortably residing just below the surface, with little to fear from law enforcement. Putting pressure on them by conducting raids etc., would go a long way, in my opinion, to restoring credibility to public officials. More to the point, to campaign against individuals who place ads, create a media circus in bypassing your own attorney general & file a personal lawsuit, target a well known public service provider yet bypass the large, commercial media interests, is self-serving. The use of his position to gain attention, hopefully avoid scrutiny, and diminish the likelihood of any organized resistance illustrates an all to common tactic among our public officials. Author a confrontation, publicize it, but take no “real”action in terms of combatting corruption, crime, or questionable behavior. Our corporations, government, & legal system all engage in increasingly risky behavior. Yet somehow they must believe we are taken in. Moreover, this incident serves as a small example of how the “game is played”. At the risk of being too critical, I just ask this question. What are we paying this guy for? Mr. Dart apparently takes his responsibilities somewhat lightly, in my opinion. Prefering instead to garner attention by proxy. Publicly, he chooses to squander his resources & authority on low level offenders, who are easier to catch, have little or no organization, & few financial (legal) resources. Ultimately, he fills our system (courts, jails) with huge numbers of relatively minor offenders who pose little serious threat to the public. Recently I met a young hispanic man who told me he has been arrested 43 times, convicted 35 times of domestic violence. Most times, the police, not the combatants, have preferred charges against him. Do we really have the resources to provide for this kind of social patrol. I say no. Let us train our resources upon the organized, well financed thugs who advertise in the newspaper, telephone books, & seemingly operate openly. Street gangs, “chop” shops, amusement vendors (gambling machines), & others who are the “real” source of ongoing criminal activity are our concern not ”ïndependent” prostitutes and certainly not Craigslist.