Shutting down CL personals
There is a “campaign” on twitter currently demanding that all of craigslist personals be shut down.
If you follow links supplied by the twitterers echoing this demand, you’ll find a couple of themes:
- They recognize that “declassifying” adult services ads would simply push them back into the personals categories, therefore you need to eliminate all personals.
- They believe casual sex, and sex outside of marriage, is happening in CL personals. Such sex is evil. Therefore CL personals are evil. Shut down CL personals.
This twitter campaign echos reasoning we have previously heard from Attorneys General, at least one of whom also essentially demanded that all of craigslist personals be shut down.
As reported in Wired, craigslist personals are the most used personals site in the US, dwarfing the total combined usage of match.com and eharmony.com and yahoo personals. CL personals are highly valued by craigslist users (and by the general public) who use them to find friendship, love, romance, companionship, entertainment, and yes, “casual encounters.”
The twitterers do have a point - declassifying “adult services” on a free classifieds board likely necessitates removing all personals categories (and probably services categories as well). Some of them point to eBay’s kijiji.com, kijiji.ca, and gumtree.com sites, which recently eliminated all personals categories, as a model to be followed in this regard.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and we embrace all criticism as useful in improving our approach. But cynical misuse of a cause as important as human trafficking as a pretense for imposing one’s own flavor of religious morality (”casual sex is evil”) strikes me as wrong on so many levels.
We will continue to work with our partners in law enforcement and advocacy groups, and reach out to potential new ones, as we strive to do the best job we can in combating human trafficking, while preserving the full-fledged classifieds (complete with all of the free personals categories) that CL users (and the general public) want and deserve.
April 29th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
I met my wife and the mother of my son via CL personals. Keep fighting the good fight, it’s the right thing to do.
April 29th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
In fact I believe you should expand your personals. Please excuse the commercial pitch but I have internet, mobile and SMS messaging software designed specifically for classifieds over any device.
Its a simple concept. Whether through twitter, sms text of mobile web page users set location and proximity in miles and then start message with either #want, #have or #discuss. The HG software then matches and exchanges messages between users back to any device based on user location, content and proximity/privacy settings.
Users register once, set location and proximity and then they can use any twitter client or SMS of mobile web to exchange content.
You can see screen shots at http://14t.me/1Lr0Kg
Of see my location page at http://dev.hungrygarden.com/brian that is integrated with My TwitterID: HungryGarden.
I would like to discuss integration of HG sms classifieds with Craigslist?
Email: help@hungrygarden.com
Location: http://dev.hungrygarden.com/hungrygardener
Blog: http://hungrygarden.typepad.com
Twitter: @hungrygarden
Phone:540.338.3584
Skype: nex2us
April 29th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
It is riduculous to demand the shut down of Cragslist Personals, as if that would eliminate anything. It’s far better to have it all in the open rather than drive it underground where less scrutiny might result in far more egregious behaviors.
April 29th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
One of the really cool things about cl is that the cl community have been the ones to drive any changes to the site. So unless there was a ground swell of cl community members that had the recommendation to remove personals I think the answer to those outsiders to the community wanting to shut down personals should be not only no, but Hell no!
A parade of puritan values for political reasons should NEVER be the reason that any change happens on cl. They can learn to twitter all they want, but if they are not cl community members then that is just the use of social media to for a political cause that I personally do not support.
April 30th, 2010 at 7:27 am
I’m not against your personals because I think sex is evil. That is a ridiculous mischaracterization of the growing outrage over Craigslist. I am against prostitution and - especially - trafficking children for sexual slavery.
Your website is used for these things all the time. You could stop it. How can you sleep?
April 30th, 2010 at 7:38 am
while there are obviously many people who want you to just shut down the personals section…there are many many more who just want your personals section to eradicate the ads which aid in the sexual exploitation of children.
If spending the effort and money on staff and technology resulted in people not being forced to have sex with strangers…wouldn’t it be worth it?
April 30th, 2010 at 7:41 am
The relevant question in all arguments like these is, “By whose standard?”
We can all argue for one point of view or another based on our own personal convictions. But if we ever hope to know what’s right or wrong, it has to come from some standard outside of us.
In this particular case, the standard is U.S. law. And so it seems you’re making a good effort to comply with that standard. I applaud that.
Those who are against personals altogether are not just fighting against casual sex — they’re fighting for a different standard altogether. That is, biblical law.
I think it’s important to understand the underlying beliefs in an argument like this one, otherwise everybody is just speaking two different languages and never really communicating.
Ryan
April 30th, 2010 at 9:09 am
I’m really sorry that you misconstrued our Twitter campaign as a moralistic battle to bring an end to people having sex outside of marriage. It is continually disconcerting to us that you are not recognizing your companys contribution to the 2nd largest criminal activity in the world: human trafficking. The evidence that Craigslist provides unprecedented access and anonimity for the sexual exploitation of women and children is overwhelming. Please consider removing the ‘personals’ category from Craigslist. Thank You.
April 30th, 2010 at 11:09 am
Over 40 cases in the last 6 months of human trafficking and the sale of minors for sexual abuse on CL have been reported in the news (and these are just the incidents where someone has been arrested for it). This isn’t about the morality of prostitution, or the use of personals to romantically connect - this is about justice.
Craigslist continues to inherently hold the position that prostitution is ok (despite the fact that it is illegal, which is even more confusing) and by continuing to support the sex trade in this way you are providing a venue for the supply of victims to meet the demand of while profiting off the transaction to the tune of $36 Million this year. Completely shameful.
April 30th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Stop hiding behind excuses and rhetoric to explain why you will not get rid of personals. It is a wonder that you can Sleep at night FULLY knowing that you are contributing to the sex traffic trade. Dig deep and do what is right! I am all for people “connecting” but that was being done long before craigslist and will continue long after craigslist. There are other ways to connect and meet people- stop acting like you are doing the world some incredible service through your personals and ACTUALLY do something worthwhile - LIKE STOPPING THE EXPLOTATION OF WOMEN & CHILDREN!
April 30th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
I’m with Ben on this one guys. I’m not saying your personals aren’t providing any good (Lucas would be an example) but if the cost of making sure that criminals don’t use your network to proliferate their crimes is the loss of the personals’ section, then I say lose it. I get that it’s not my millions of dollars at stake (and I’m not suggesting in a passive/aggressive way that you’d let money align you with the horrors of human trafficking) but it still seems like the most viable and honest solution.
Pimps and thugs will continue to use whatever means neccessary to do what they do, but if my website was one of those ways I’d hope I’d do everything in my power to stop them. I love shopping for things I need on CL and appreciate your service, but I do wish you’d remove personals for the reasons others have stated so much better than I could.
April 30th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Cell phones and email are also used for the purposes of prostitution and human trafficking but are much more difficult (and legally thorny) for law enforcement to follow up on than public postings on a website.
The only reason these people are up in arms is because craigslist has made a previously invisible black market visible to the public. If the personals are shut down then. Notice what Ben Patterson says: “Over 40 cases in the last 6 months of human trafficking and the sale of minors for sexual abuse on CL have been reported in the news” If not for craigslist these transactions would have occurred elsewhere and no one would have known. This is a classic case of people confusing the messenger for the message.
April 30th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Hmmmm…..
While I do not believe that sex outside of marriage is evil, I do believe that selling humans is.
I can see how turning Craiglist’s profiting from the sale of human life into a battle over “moral values” helps to deflect from the real issues at hand, but it is also cowardly.
Perhaps Craiglist is unaware that many of its users do not condone child sex trafficking, or human trafficking of any kind, and will not be satisified with Craigslist doing the least amount possible to obey the letter of the law, instead of doing all that they can to end the use of their site for illegal activites.
April 30th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Human trafficking forces people into prostitution. This is not a choice, and although many people who advertise on your site are consenting adults, many are not. Until consenting adults can be separated from innocent children and adults being forced into sex against their will on your website, I urge you to consider removing the “Personals” category from Craigslist.
April 30th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
@Troy/Sara -
You want to destroy a useful service because some people abuse it? WTF is wrong with you? Perhaps some problems don’t have really simple solutions. Perhaps a little cost/benefit should be considered here.
If you shutdown CL Personals, the activity will just move elsewhere. Do you want to shut down all free personal sites on the internet? How about sites like backpage and redbook? CL is at least working with law enforcement to try and stem trafficking. If you push it out of the light, you’ll just push it farther into the shadows.
You’re not going to stop prostitution. There’s a reason it’s called “the world oldest profession.” Better to keep it on CL where law enforcement can keep an eye on it.
Just because some grandstanding AG wants to get (re)elected, that doesn’t mean he’s advocating something that makes any sense.
April 30th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
If there is a woman on the street soliciting money in exchange for sex, she (according to the laws of our somewhat confused society) should be arrested.
If there is a man on the street, soliciting sex in exchange for money, he (according to the laws in our somewhat confused society) should be arrested.
Blocking the street to prevent some people from conducting illegal activities on the street removes freedoms from those who commit no crime and denies opportunity to all.
The problem is not access to the street. The problem is that some people abuse their right to use the street. But, I suspect, if the penalty for abuse where severe enough, the abusers would, in due course, end the abuse of their right to use the street.
Sure, the coward will block the street. It’s a single action against a single entity that is understandable (to those who excel in single mindedness) and it is efficient and effective. More than anything, the blocked street reminds us all someone, somewhere is looking out for us.
But, to those of us who can focus on two issues at the same time, preventing law abiding citizens from using the street is a monstrous penalty to pay for stopping the horrors that abusers can commit while using the street.
Better I think to make the penalty fit the crime. Abuse a child, spend your life in prison. Solicit money for sex or vice versa, spend ten years in prison. Harsh penalties meted out to the abusers will be a far better solution than harsh penalties meted out to the rest of us in an effort to stop a small number of abusers.
Please, please, please remember there are two issues here: Freedom to use the street and stopping abuse of the street. Don’t take away everyone’s freedom with the intent of stopping a relatively small number of abusers, even if every victim’s story is sad beyond measure. It’s fairly certain we will have a much sadder story to tell after we find we have have traded away the freedom of millions to stop abuse by hundreds.
April 30th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
There definitely needs to be more weeding out of ads that are inappropriate. If you meet someone online and it’s a good thing, then good but there are soo many dangers w/ craigslist. I thought craigslist initially started for jobs, roommate situations, volunteer activities, etc. I think those at craigslist are just being lazy….I’ve seen so many ads that are so bad they might as well be on a porn site.
April 30th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Not a single one of the Twitter posts protesting Craig’s List personals mentions anything about the (im)morality of sex outside of a marriage. As Mr. Newmark is so fond of repeating, get your facts straight.
This issue is human trafficking and prostitution.
And the issue is also money, apparently. Are the personals too much of a cash cow for Craig’s List to take them down, even if it means they can put a stop to the misery they’re facilitating?
I hope not.
April 30th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
I am curious if newspapers and large media groups are behind this since they have lost millions of dollars due to craigslist personal ads. Many old time blame the loss of advertisement or classified ads due to craigslist. I wouldn’t be surprised…
April 30th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Don’t listen to the moralists. They are just mad that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.
Don’t let a modern wonder like Craigslist be ruined by idiots who want to rule the world with “laws” from a bronze-age book.
April 30th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
Maybe what we should do is BAN the Earth. I mean, the Earth is the platform from which murders, child rapes, prostitution and sex slavery is perpetrated right? So I say BAN THE EARTH. HUMANITY IS DOING NOTHING to stop these activities! And my goodness, governments are making money indirectly on these activities because the people who make money from these activities buy things, and that pays sales taxes!!!! HOW DO THEY SLEEP AT NIGHT! Goodness, we could stretch anything to fit our agendas can’t we. The reality is… criminals will find a way to be criminals regardless of CL. Should we ban the “for sale” section because someone might sell stolen property? No, of course not. We catch those criminals and put them in jail. That same logic should be applied to the personals section. If illegal activities are taking place, the people behind the illegal activities need to be subjected to legal consequences, not the web site itself. I remember an old saying… how does that go? “Don’t shoot the messenger” I would hope that cooler heads would prevail, and a little common sense would be applied here.
April 30th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
I am a new poster.. and I never actually knew what excatly CL stood for.
I went on your site and presto.. I was very impressed with the arrangements you have constructed on so many issues that affect everyones life on a daily basis.
I found the opportune moment to reply to “Missed Connections” and sent out a long over due apology to a man that I fell in love with and endured this feeling for a few years in silence. Well. that came to an end when my store closed and out of anger I chosed the wrong word to say to him…it was the very first word and the last word to him which, might I add was not good word and for that I sent out my very first post on CL.. it was an “I’m sorry” apology on missed connection.
As my story goes.. a friend of his JL did read my post and responded to me I KNOW he told him that someone was sending out an apology to him and for him to read it. JL did check back with me and asked if I ever found the gentleman…. He knows.. men don’t keep secrets between each other.
Anyway.. your site is pretty cool in some areas. However, some areas are quite vulgar and I am quite tramatized by it. I have refused to go back on a few times.. However, it is addicting and I only check out the Missed Connection to see if the gentleman ever responds. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t its not knowing is the exciting part and as long as I know that I sent that over due apology out to him I just hope and pray that he too will respond in that very same section with…”I accept your apology”
Don’t shut CL you have created brillance for millions of people to laugh , cry, vent, find love , find friendship and of course, long over due apologies.
This site is brillant and I LOVE being able to vent and above all :::: Embrace my FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT .. on CRAIGS LIST.
April 30th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
I’m saddened that you have misinterpreted the twitter campaign. I have indeed seen it and it doesn’t speak of casual sex, only that heinous crime of human trafficking. You state that you are working with officials to stop this, but I see little evidence of that. However there is mounting evidence against CL and the crime that it allows. I agree whole heatedly with Mr. Patterson when I say, completely shameful. I would like to ask what the CL standards are if they allow this selling of innocent women and children to continue. They have enormous power here, and sadly they are wielding it inappropriately.
April 30th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
What links are you following to draw the connection that this is about casual sex? All the links I see are talking almost exclusively about prostitution and sex trafficking. That’s also exclusively what the tweets are about.
This blog post seems like excuses in an attempt to rationalize of your lacking the guts to do the hard but the right thing.
May 1st, 2010 at 1:55 am
Dear Craigslist,
Don’t change a damn thing!
Love,
A Craigslist junkie
May 1st, 2010 at 11:26 am
It seems to me that if people were really concerned about human trafficking, they would push for the legalization and strict regulation of prostitution so we could move it out of the back alleys and anonymous personals. Then we might be able to spend more resources fighting actual trafficking and child prostitution, as opposed to spending a huge amount of time trying to stop two consenting adults from having sex for money.
Instead they pick an easy target like CL and rail against it because it helps them sleep better, regardless of the fact that they are doing nothing to address one of the major causes of human trafficking: The black market created by the criminalization of the sex trade.
May 1st, 2010 at 12:28 pm
“Over 40 cases in the last 6 months…”
It is a terrible thing. It is shocking to me that people engage in that kind of behavior. And the perpetrators should be executed. But why stop at Craigslist?
I assume these people also used cellphones. As a pervasive tool used in these and many other crimes they should be banned. Also, I am sure that cars were used to transport the victims of these crimes. As almost all crimes are tied to the use of automobiles, they should be either banned or regulated more closely. And the hotels/motels are frankly the heart of the problem…. These crimes always take place at some hotel. All hotels should be close permanently!
Oh… wait. Maybe the the behavior should be blamed on the perpetrator, NOT the tools used to commit the crime. Craigslist is a perfectly legitimate tool for interacting within a community. That the occacional miscreant uses the tool for illegal intent is the fault of the individual, not the tool.
It is a real shame those who would direct their effort at Craigslist can’t find a more constructive use of their time and effort.
May 1st, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Ben Patterson above reckons that there have been 40 cases involving the abuse of minors in the last 6 months on CL (I assume via the “Personal ads” section?). Troy and Sara Groves say that Craigslist provides “unprecedented access” for the sexual exploitation of children.
40 cases (or even 3 times that) out of millions (or even thousands) of ads does not sound “unprecedented” at all! Bear in mind that ACTUAL facts collected by the ACF indicate that approximately 5% of US kids receive CPS assessments or investigations, with 20% of these being substantiated. This means that 1% of US kids are actually known to have been abused or maltreated in some way (over 700 THOUSAND). This obviously excludes any unreported cases so the true extent of abuse will be worse. The majority of these cases of abuse are perpetrated by the parents, not mysterious kiddie smugglers. [see for yourself - http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm08/cm08.pdf ]
If you really want to protect kids you should lobby your political representatives to increase your taxes so funding to CPS agencies can be increased… 13% of child fatalities (linked to abuse) occur in families KNOWN to CPS agencies.
Furthermore, increased funding could improve the response time to reports of child abuse…the average time in the US is about 80 hours, although some states like Nebraska take over 300 hours!
It is interesting to note that there is no response time data for AG Blumenthal’s state, Connecticut in the ACF report for 2005, 2007 and 2008 (the majority of states have data). I wonder if this is something that they track in Connecticut? I hope so…as the management mantra goes, “if you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it”.
If we are going to discuss “unprecedented access”, no discussion would be complete without mention of religion. The John Jay Study estimated that 4% of priests have molested minors! The Vatican reassures us that this is not out of the ordinary, as leaders of other religions abuse children at the same rate [see for yourself - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/28/sex-abuse-religion-vatican ]. And the Catholic Church is probably right as insurance companies agree that other religions carry the same risk [see for yourself - http://www.newsweek.com/id/236096 ]
That sounds like a pretty good justification for banning religion or the advertisement of religious events. (let’s start a Twitter campaign!)
When I consider the facts I cannot help but conclude that “save the children” is nothing but a smokescreen for religious people trying to dictate what consenting adults may or may not do.
May 1st, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Typo correction to my previous comment: The John Jay Study estimated that 4% of priests have been ACCUSED of molesting minors. (Note: Some allegations may be false, while some actual cases will not generate allegations).
May 1st, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Not only will I be boycotting Craigslist from now on for its continued baldfaced promotion of illegal prostitution, even in the face of continued abuse and loss of life of the victims of prostitution, the final straw is the call from the city of San Francisco to boycott the state of Arizona for taking a stand against illegal immigration. Craigslist is based in San Francisco.
What is it that you people have against laws that create an orderly and civilized society? Boycotts work both ways, and I will be studying the extensive list of other businesses that are based in San Francisco and taking my business not only elsewhere, but straight TO Arizona-based companies who actually respect law and order and understand the concept of state and U.S. sovereignty.
Bye bye Craigslist! Wish I could say it was nice knowin’ ya…
May 1st, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Seriously?? Wow, I thought you were better than that.
“…cynical misuse of a cause as important as human trafficking as a pretense for imposing one’s own flavor of religious morality (”casual sex is evil”) strikes me as wrong on so many levels.”
I agree with that, completely. But, a “cause as important as human trafficking” should be consider, no? And worked AGAINST, yes? I find this upsetting. Sorry if this offends you, but I find it WAY more important that one child is not sold or trafficked than that even a thousand people get to have sex. Sure, sex is great, but is it really worth people being sold as slaves because of it?
Or, to be even more at the heart of the matter - how much is a child worth? Since “…Craigslist personals are the most used personals site in the US…” I think it’s fair to assume you make a fair bit off profit from it.
Sorry if I’m being ever so slightly off-topic or unfair, but like I said, I find this VERY upsetting. If you want good, rational comments, look above mine.
….and I thought slavery was abolished. Guess Craigslist doesn’t agree with that thought, at least not for every price.
May 1st, 2010 at 4:03 pm
I have no problems with personals websites…. I have several friends that have found their husband/wife this way and they have been very happy together.
But when these websites border (or cross) the line of violating the rights of an underage girl, or when the ordeal is forced and not voluntary, I think it is time to relook our approach. I’m not saying that Crag’s List personals need to be shut down, but I believe it may be time to watch with more diligence what is posted. If something looks suspicious, it needs to be taken down. Promptly.
The grim truth is that trafficking will occur no matter what measures are taken, but is it not the responsible and right thing to do to make sure that it doesn’t happen on Craig’s List?
May 1st, 2010 at 5:01 pm
As a women I am so disheartened the sexual “prudeness” seems to be an excuse or your choice of defending the degradation, solicitation and vicitimization of women and children. Continue to find it so sad to see the argument for “sexual freedom” be the defense of human slavery, plain and simple. history repeating itself.
Agree Ben Patterson - so will repreat “Craigslist continues to inherently hold the position that prostitution is ok (despite the fact that it is illegal, which is even more confusing) and by continuing to support the sex trade in this way you are providing a venue for the supply of victims to meet the demand of while profiting off the transaction to the tune of $36 Million this year. Completely shameful.”
I will work hard to make sure that my friends, family and anyone else I can speak to never uses Craigslist services again until this is changed. Please reconsider removing the ‘personals’ category from Craigslist. Thank you!
May 1st, 2010 at 5:35 pm
I, too, feel that Craigslist would be well advised to do away with their personals. You may feel that you provide a valuable service to people, and I’m sure that there are plenty of happy individuals who have started relationships through CL, however, I also feel a great many people (specifically children) are being harmed through the services you offer. I believe strongly that you have an opportunity to make a very public, very powerful statement, and instead of hearing this, you’ve chosen to pick a fight over values. From now on, I’m boycotting Craigslist. I’ve used your site before for a great many services. I’m a photographer who’s found jobs, a consumer who has received goods, and a seller who has exchanged goods through your site, but I will not be using your site until such a time as you see fit to take away a tool which people are actively using to harm children and to traffic human beings like they are sex toys.
May 1st, 2010 at 5:40 pm
Prostitution requires a negotiation in some form or other in which sex is exchanged for some form of compensation. It is legal brothel in a legal Nevada.
NO ONE on Craigslist ever advertises sex for money. That is just plain illegal and they should be arrested for prostitution.
So, what if I meet a nice lady, we decide we’re attracted to each other, and have sex. That’s not illegal. So, what if, after the above exchange, I decide give her some money to help her meet her bills because she is broke, I like her, and I’m kind of a sweetheart and it’s nice to help her. That’s not illegal either. Most boy friend/girl friend relationships are based on some part of that description.
In 1989 Sydney Biddle Barrows (Mayflower Madam) was charged with prostitution. She plead guilty to stop the whole expensive legal mess but this issue was the same. The men didn’t pay for sex. There was never any discussion of sex for money.
Eliot Spitzer a “fancy lawyer” never paid money for sex, though he truly spent a lot of money and probably had a good time. There is NO WAY to prove he paid for sex for money.
The problem is that the issue is innuendo.
The only way to eliminate the situation is to eliminate all personal ads. And unfortunately, there are lots of people who build nice relationships based on personal ads. And there are lots of other horny people that meet for sex with people who want to have sex with them, which isn’t illegal either.
May 1st, 2010 at 6:04 pm
All adult themed personals on craigslist should be removed immediately . It’s causing to many immoral problems . If Craigslist has to continue with the CL . Have it shut down the adult theme sight only or place it in a more hidden section with a security warning attatched to it that reads that most of the subjected material contains questionable themes not suitable for young audience eyes . Due to graphic natured texts and photographs .
May 1st, 2010 at 7:33 pm
It’s really stupid. Stupid people will get fooled anyway there is no point in shutting down the things other people enjoy. If they need to cleanup, clean something else.
I’d prefer CL to have more structured personals than just one generic “men seeking women” or “women seeking men”
May 2nd, 2010 at 6:50 am
The issue is not, and has never been, whether casual sex is wrong. If Craigslist’s “Personals” ads in any way allow, contribute to, or profit from any form of human trafficking, which in many cases is a form of modern-day slavery, which, in many cases involves minors and/or kidnapping, then it needs to be shut down. If you can not make 100% sure that your “Personal” ads have zero involvement in human trafficking, then shutting down all “Personal” ads is the only ethical option, regardless of how much it will hurt your bottom line.
Many people I know, myself included, are boycotting Craigslist until this problem is rectified.
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:18 am
It’s unlikely that shutting down CL’s personals would have the effect of permanently shutting down the market for commercial sex. In a forthcoming chapter in a book on online crime, Todd Kendall and I studied what happened when CL switched from erotic services to adult services. Here’s a previous draft of the chapter:
http://business.baylor.edu/scott_cunningham/research_files/SFS_1207c.pdf
Figure 2, page 34, you can see that (1) it led to a temporary, but large, drop in ads to these designated “adult/erotic services” section of the site but (2) also led to growth in ads at CL clonesites, such as Village Voice’s backpage. In fact, prior to CL switching to adult services, backpage’s own “adult services” had been largely flat, but the regulation caused both a spike in ads there, and appears to have given the site the momentum it needed to begin growing on its own, while CL nearly eventually reached (by the end of our sample) its pre-adult services levels.
There’s a lot of substitutes for CL’s personal ads. The market is search for a single clearinghouse for these ads, and CL was basically selected for various historical reasons (eg, first mover in this market, brand recognition, etc.). Shutting down CL’s personals would definitely reduce ads to CL, but it’s effect on the actual ads and the matching between individuals would probably only be temporarily disrupted. At this point, Law enforcement knows where this stuff happens - through CL. But the costs of enforcing are going to increase if law enforcement has to begin searching over multiple sites, few of which will be as willing to work with law enforcement as CL (who have been cooperative).
May 2nd, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I’m all about eliminating the personals. The new site restrictions (phone verification) are so broken that human beings can’t particularly use the personals even if they wanted to. I’ve tried to post in missed connections a few times since phone verification was put into place and so far I’ve verified that 0 of the posts end up being searchable. This is with all of the jumping through hoops like removing non alphanumeric characters, deleting similar posts and waiting no less than 48 hours, starting from scratch so that posts aren’t similar.
Alternatively, get rid of the phone verification and encourage people to flag bogus ads.
Craigslist is merely a joke when it comes to personals. It will never be taken seriously so long as the users are not able to get the results that are desired. Cleaning up all of the spam or defending the morality of the personals will accomplish nothing if the facilities don’t function to begin with.
May 2nd, 2010 at 10:29 pm
I would like to add to the stats you had mentioned.A whooping 17 million people visit Craigs list per month. When we analyze the reasons behind it we can find the following main differentiating factors between other sites and Craigs
Quick accessibility
Straight-forward interface
A good posting registry ranging from video games and community events.
This strength cant be compromised by listening to a group of persons with a narrow mind set. I really appreciate the fact that you will try to combat Human trafficking which is a Socially responsible answer.
May 2nd, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Why don’t they just reboot the internet and only allow good people to log in?
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:01 pm
All adult themed activity should be stopped. Sex should only be used to give birth to more miserable wretches who will spend their lives atoning for the sin of being born, and pay the church.
May 3rd, 2010 at 10:09 am
Clearly it is a “religious” movement and other “religous” dating sites like Eharmony, etc., marketing themselves to increase their own revenues.
Love everything about Craigslist! Let’s keep bigotry, judgement, arrogance and self-righteousness away.
Thanks
May 3rd, 2010 at 10:28 am
My only hope is that someone starts a competitive website providing the SAME functionality as Craigslist MINUS the personal ads. Then, we’ll see how quickly Craigslist changes its mind — because from my cursory review of friends and colleagues, they’d GLADLY switch to another site to find apartments, furniture, etc. if it meant closing this opportunity for illegal activity.
May 3rd, 2010 at 11:23 am
To the folks calling for the removal of the Personals: I sincerely hope that you are also contacting all the other national newspapers/alt weeklies/etc, as well as your state’s Attorney General in your campaign. If you’re simply focusing on craigslist you are ignorant and misguided in your endeavor.
And you all suck.
May 3rd, 2010 at 8:25 pm
I am boycotting Craigslist for their role in this. I am boycotting San Francisco, for hosting Craigslist, California for funding San Francisco and America for being funded by San Francisco. I am boycotting The Internet for carrying your evil-laden messages.
So long!
May 4th, 2010 at 1:21 am
I just accidentally signed the petition to get you to stop the personal ads. I am so sorry I did that.
Please keep them going. Several very lonely men need relief tonight and their not going to find it without some help. Of course, if they went to outreach groups provided in every major city in America they would also be armed with tools to prevent sexual violence against them. And for those who traffic in humans, over or underage? They are just insects who need to be squashed. Shutting down the board that it’s posted on will not change the ACTIVITY people, just the CONDUIT.
If you’d all SHUT UP and let law enforcement do its job, we might get some leads here. Now NOBODY’s gonna post child ads here and we’ve lost the window where we can use technology to catch them. But you didn’t think of that. You were too busy, as I was, overreacting to CHILD ENDANGERMENT and HUMAN TRAFFICKING in a headline. Morons.
Meanwhile, Dr. K. Johnsson? I think you’re right, but you’ve got it a little off. We should start a competing website with all of Craigslist’s OTHER services, we should start a competing website that only shows sex ads. That way, all the pervs would be in one place. It’s called the domain “www.*.xxx” or “www.*.sex” They tried to push that through years ago, but giving it consent would legitimize sex (God forfend!) and that would be saying the Government approves sex! My God! Are you insane! I’m gonna try that. Craigslist, but for sex only….oh, wait. it’s already been done. A long time ago it was called “Dial a Match” and was the first money making enterprise on the web.
Learn to distinguish the real issue, people. You’re stupidity is showing.
May 4th, 2010 at 5:01 am
I’d like to meet the police officer or the prosecutor that says they don’t like all the criminals and sex-offenders and child-pornographers and traffickers lined up in one message board, with a cooperative website host, traceable IP’s, and a general feeling of smug security that breeds confidence and risk-taking. If they had half a brain they’d be pumping out arrests and keeping the whole thing quiet so they didn’t spook their targets. This is a gift to law enforcement… who doesn’t understand that?
If the government could get all the members of Al Qaeda to join a message board and talk about operations, exchange equipment, and plan/advertise backyard BBQ’s … do you think they’d try to shut it down? We’d be hosting it on giant NSA servers to make sure the f’ing thing never went down!
May 4th, 2010 at 6:24 am
I am again shocked at the lack of personal responsibility demonstrated in some of these postings. First Craigslist is not the problem and they are not a law enforcement agency. How about people take care of their own household, husbands, wives and children and stop trying to pass that responsibility to others. I am not for any type of illigel behaviors, but how many of these people drink a little and then drive, or exceed the speed limit especially in a school zone. We have law enforcement agencies that we can take suspected issues to and they will investigate and take the necessary action. Craigslist has taken the step of creating an Adult section so that people that want to post ads for massage and escorting services can list their services outside of regular personal ads and I applaude them. I met my partner on Craigslist and have been very happy. Finally I just saw a story on one of the morning news programs and I thought how ridiculous is that? With all that is truely wrong or going badly we are reporting on this and trying to imply that Craigslist should police all of it’s posting. Absolutely ridiculous!!
May 4th, 2010 at 7:57 am
While I don’t care for CL’s anti’gun/weapons policy, I’ll stand with them on the Personals ads thing.
Having met my wife through Yahoo’s personals I see nothing wrong with one’s getting the word out on themselves & their avaliability.
And while I’d not use the Sexual services site I believe the Anti’s should stay away from them also. Nobody forces them to look, just as no one forces the anti weapons & hunting people to look at a site which has weapons for sale for people looking to buy/sell them in accordance with reasonable state & federal laws.
The right to free spach & other rights hinges on the right for a people to be well armed.
If yer not NRA yer part of the problem.
Hunter in WYO.
NRA Endowment member.
May 5th, 2010 at 10:01 am
As someone who would be considered a Christian by definition, I wrote a post today on why Christians (or anyone for that matter) should NOT boycott Craigslist.
Surprisingly, a lot of other Christians agree with me.
http://flowerdust.net/2010/05/05/why-christians-shouldnt-boycott-craigslist/
As humans, we should take care of other humans - sex should not be a commodity. But that issue needs to be addressed with people and through people, not through the medium.
I applaud CL’s generosity to charitable organizations and willingness to work with law enforcement when they can. I hope they’ll do more, and I hope we will do more to help those affected by trafficking.
May 6th, 2010 at 12:42 am
Are you kidding me.Some people need to get a life.Craigs List has done nothing WRONG. These People need to check out the Yellow pages in every city under Escorts or Massage. Start there and after you have Cleaned Up your own back yard well then mabe try the classified in your own local newspaper. Give Craigs List a break. I think somebody wants to get rid of this free service, mabe this is a money thing?
May 6th, 2010 at 2:56 am
Don’t attack the tool for the problem. Neither side wants illegal posts on CL. Put your energy into flagging illegal content instead of boycotting. The problem can be solved using the current system.
May 6th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Holy moly, did ebay lose the lawsuit? It looks like they’re massively ticked off and paying people to hit you guys from all sides.
May 6th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
omg. when I read the article I nearly cried. Me and my boyfriend met on craigslist in November and it was the best thing thats ever happened to me. I couldnt imagine taking off the personals and other people not having a chance to meet their soulmates.
May 6th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Ok let me set the record straight. I have a right to pay for sex with anyone I want to as long as that person is above a certain age and is mentally competent. For all extremist religious fanatics and so called liberals who want to ban everything so that they can control everyone’s lives I kindly ask you to give up your desire to dominate people.
This reactionary desire to dominate, no matter what your political/personal preferred identifier - liberal,conservative, leftist, right winger, is the problem with people today. I stand up for my right to purchase sex from whoever I want to as long as the are mentally fit and above the consensual age in the culture in which we are dealing with. I stand against all ideologues who want to dominate other people so as to make them just like themselves. Down with domination.
May 6th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
I think Cl personals are great. I met the love of my life on the Cl. Dont knock it, you really can find some descent people on there. Yeah, there is alot of corny crap on the Cl but its worth looking you may find the one you have been looking for your entire life.
May 6th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
WOW…40 Cases were an arrest was made because oof craigslist….thats just insane, I mean without craigslist those 40 arrests might not have been made. I say we shut it down so the next 40 prostitutes/trafficers/whatever have a little harder time getting caught.
While I may not like and agree with everything on CL (and In some respects I pride myself on being a right wing conservative), people need to engage their brains…with this mentality we should shut down every street corner as stated earlier.
To apply this line of thinking to a more tangable scenerio, we should mandate that no car in the US is capable of exceeding 75MPH (as that is the highest speed limit in the US), and while I will agree (with conditions) that speed can be a contributing factor in fatal accidents, implementing this will in no way stop someone from driving through a school zone at 75 MPH or getting behind the wheel drunk.
The “other” perspective is that “evil” will always exist…I do not approve of selling humans or sex, or to a point even casual sexual relationships, but I do believe in free will (because I am a Christian), and freedom of speech (as this is part of what are country was founded on….at the end of the day true justice, morality and civil peace come when society polices itself….the proof is in the pudding…there are now 40 less criminals on the loose because they were exposed to society through this channel.
In closing I ask this question…If craigslist did not have personals or the “adult services” section where do you think the 40 individuals who were arrested would be right now?
May 7th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Adults will find a way to connect with other adults for relationships and *gasp* sex. Craigslist provides a way to do that. The idea that a movement can stop adults looking for adults on the internet is stupid, give up.
When it comes to children, Craigslist provides a link that you can click to report such activity.
As far as the people who are boycotting Craigslist… Big deal, the internet goes on with or without you and ten bucks says that A) you were never a Craigslist visitor anyway or B) you’ll be trolling the personals within 4 hours of your “ban”.
May 12th, 2010 at 2:24 am
Craigslist is generally a good website would have to agree with the type of sick people that have and are using it for devilish and evil doings. With all the millions of dollars Craigslist earns, it could implement better safety measures for Craigslist users. It’s a shame its all about the money. If this is what it takes, shutting down the CL personals then it needs to be done. No one’s life is worth loosing over this!
May 13th, 2010 at 6:34 am
That’s great they provide a link “that you can click to report such activity” when it comes to child trafficking. The fact that they do, indicates a knowledge that there is child trafficking on their site. I believe what I have read and heard people outraged at is this fact and this fact alone.
I don’t think the “sex outside of marriage” argument has been brought up by anyone other than those craigslist supporters seeking to diminish the real issue. If it were merely about adults finding people to “hook-up” with casually, well then that’s up to them. The fact that it has and is being used to both traffic children and for prostitution (both of which I believe are illegal, if not immoral) is the issue.
I would plead the case that Craiglist make a more concerted effort to not have need of that “report suspected child trafficking” link. I thank you for any effort you are making and ask only that you think about your children and grandchildren. If one of them were being exploited on your site, would the whole of the personals be worth the risk of her?
May 18th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
My stance has nothing to do with sex outside marriage, but rather a moral obligation to treat others with respect, dignity and honesty.
Personal ads are fine, but some of the photos that go with many of these ads are despicable as are the descriptions. I’m referring to the M4M ads… I personally know of men who “claim” to be disease free and HIV negative, who in fact are not, and they are knowingly, spreading diseases to others!
There are countless ads from men who are married and want to have sex with other men, who then go home to their unsuspecting wives (who may be pregnant), and spread diseases to their wives and unborn babies. A tragedy of epic proportions both financially and morally!! Just think, you are contributing to those tragedies… do you have a conscience?
Yes, I have clicked on the ads with explicit photos to report them however, the ads never disappear.
According to the Craiglist Terms of Use, under Conduct #7, you have asked your users to: not to post, email, or otherwise make available Content:b) that is pornographic or depicts a human being engaged in actual sexual conduct
including but not limited to (i) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or (ii) bestiality, or (iii) masturbation, or (iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse, or (v) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person.
However, when someone flags those ads which (according to Craigslist, are not allowed), you fail to remove them. I believe you need to be responsible and remove ads like those, which other users are flagging.
May 25th, 2010 at 12:31 am
DO NOT REMOVE THE PERSONALS!!
These people are throwing stones! Every where you look there is a sin commited! EVERYWHERE!!! BooWho! Cry me a river!
Internet or not they are still commited!
Next concern please! ;I
May 25th, 2010 at 12:34 am
While I myself see the validity of both sides of the coin being argued. I cannot say that there is a solution. In one way or the other… One group of people is commiting an act of tyranny. This country was founded on certain Freedoms. Life, Liberty, And the Pursuit of happiness. Even before the Amendments were even written. In one way… Destroying CL Personals treads upon the rights of people’s Pursuit of Happiness… In others the mere existance of said column causes many people to lose their liberty each day… But the solution I see does not involve either party having to suffer… But instead to bring that suffering to light… So that those responsible may be caught. I myself have and will continue to use CL Personals. It is a very useful tool for Polyamorous Pagans such as myself… I do not see a real solution to this problem that has plagued newspapers, advertising companies, personals sites, and even chatrooms for many years. Shutting them down would do no real good as they still have word of mouth…. Fighting something such as the sex trafficking trade… Is never easy… Human trafficking isn’t easy to fight either… It is the responsibility of law enforcement agencies to catch these people… Not Craigslist…. It is our responsibility to report them and what we see…
May 27th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Legal drugs are misused everyday due to criminals.should theyall be banned also? priests molest children so close all the churches too?guns kill hundreds a day, ban them also?bad cops and judges commit crimes daily,hang all of them?c.l.has no control over the general public misusing a service that most of us use to better our everyday lives.why dont you communist bastards get off our page and get on with your miserable lives.
May 30th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
I’ve been using Craiglist personals to meet people for several years. And the quality of people I’ve met here is great, I’ve had friendships that have lasted years. Since I’ve also used paid relationship sites, I can say from experience that people on Craigslist are more normal. And the ones that are not normal plainly explain it in their posts, so it’s easy to avoid them.
With that said, Craigslist users are a community and from talking to other users we agree that it is also our responsibility to curb illegal content by flagging it. Which I have done from time to time.
So Mr. Craig and Company…Thanks for keeping the personals section!!
July 1st, 2010 at 10:25 am
Some of you intelligent people are just hilarious…you come to CL to say your gonna boycott CL… Well ok just go who’s stopping you.
I’ll bet not a dang one of you activist/protesters what ever, are doing anything locally , of course your not or you’d be tooting your horn so loud. Any of you operate a shelter for women or teens or go out and police the streets. Nope its a lot easier demanding someone else do something at their expense. Everyone that complains should get one prostitute to save and have them come live with them, pay their bills, then you would be doing something any takers ?
So its CL responsibility to stop the oldest profession in the world. Your right if we close CL personnel nothing bad in the world will ever happen. Your rationale is laughable. After the personnel ads you gonna take away the car and motorcycle ads cause some people got sold a lemon. Please great activist save me from all the dangers and bad people in the world.
July 3rd, 2010 at 11:56 am
We need to stop this madness !! every time, there some kind of a good Idea that is free for the public, (Such as the Personal Section) and people can finally meet other people for what ever reason it may be, someone (usually who loses money ) is wanting to close it !!
This is crazy!!!
July 14th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
i met my husband on cl~~ im thankful for the ads!
July 20th, 2010 at 11:43 am
This may be a naive question but how does Craigslist make money off of their personals? Does it cost to put them up?
July 21st, 2010 at 8:09 pm
I live in Tucson, and just tried to check the Adult section, and the only result is a half of page of a language that looks like Chinese!! What’s going on??? Please fix this!
Thanks.
July 21st, 2010 at 10:36 pm
and what a tasteful reply to the opponents of the personals this is. i hope they’d all read it, but it’s nice to combat ridiculousness with common sense. after all, common sense is what these louder conservative folks claim they have over the supposed liberal street-and-book-wise-ness.
July 22nd, 2010 at 10:23 am
I dont believe they should ban them…I use them all the time …Also to whom ever mentioned is sin (WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE)if you dont like them then quit going there…THIS IS AMERICA……..I have met some fantastic people on the personals……Please Keep the personals…we are adults…..
August 5th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Please keep freedom of speech alive, and the government out of our personal affairs
August 25th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Charlie Knoles Says:
April 30th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Cell phones and email are also used for the purposes of prostitution and human trafficking but are much more difficult (and legally thorny) for law enforcement to follow up on than public postings on a website.
The only reason these people are up in arms is because craigslist has made a previously invisible black market visible to the public. If the personals are shut down then. Notice what Ben Patterson says: “Over 40 cases in the last 6 months of human trafficking and the sale of minors for sexual abuse on CL have been reported in the news” If not for craigslist these transactions would have occurred elsewhere and no one would have known. This is a classic case of people confusing the messenger for the message.
—————–
The above poster is spot on.
August 25th, 2010 at 11:55 pm
I was watching CNN and seen how they are trying to get your ads removed. I am on both sides of the field I think Craigslist has its first amendment right freedom of speech. But on the other hand prostitution ads are not good either. I know you guys do your best to screen them but I think a team of 3 or 4 people working in this category would be fitting. This way you can screen all the bad ads offering adult services and cut them off at the knees.
This will also help your millions of readers by offering them a safe, family friendly classified that we all can be very proud of. There are more good people out there who use these ads on the up and up and not for illegal activities,
Keep up the good fight!
September 15th, 2010 at 2:50 am
I recently found…accidentally, that my husband had responded to a personal ad on CL and I was needless to say FURIOUS. I was furious that he did that and I was even more furious that CL had a section that made it so easy for him to do. When I went to check it out I was shocked at the ads I found. Married people looking for a discreet encounter, quickies on lunch break and just blatant offerings for sex. Things like this promote cheating, lying and betrayal. Lets face it, all marriage’s have their issues and are hard enough to keep strong without the opportunity to cheat being so available. Why are you married but on CL looking for a chance to cheat. If these services/offers so easily found on CL give a man/woman free and easy “people” then why try to work on your relationship. Maybe if this section wasn’t so “easy” then people would focus on their relationship because they couldn’t run jump on CL with the click of a few buttons. It wouldn’t bother me a bit if that section just disappeared.
September 15th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
Strange that craigslist was challanged for sexual content ads and MSN,
Google, Yahoo, and AOL to mention four out of 4,000 who run pornography
listings that run sex sites that advertise for you to answer their come on
ads for sex. 70 per cent of sex sites are paid for by women soliciting sex
and have been for years. Now that more than 30 per cent of these sites
viewed by police agencies to capture criminals I’m wondering why the
craigslist people didn’t let the police use their site to catch sex offenders?
Who advertised more for sex UTUBE or Craigslist? So why was craigslist
singled out as solicitation for sex and not the other sites?