Response to CT AG Letter
We very much appreciate this new input from Attorney General Blumenthal, and look forward to a continuing collaboration with his office, the other Attorneys General, and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC). We appreciate his acknowledgement of the progress we have made since he and 42 other US Attorneys General joined us in announcing new protective measures 6 months ago. We also agree that there is more work to be done, not just by craigslist but by all Internet-based services, working cooperatively with law enforcement officials, to eliminate illegitimate activity to the greatest extent possible. craigslist is fully engaged in pursuing this goal, and has several initiatives underway that speak to the concerns expressed in Mr. Blumenthal’s letter, concerns which we also share. craigslist intends to play an ever larger leadership role with respect to Internet safety and security, and we invite and appreciate any and all input from Attorneys General, from NCMEC, from law enforcement agents, and from non-profit organizations. We will have more to say on this subject in the days and weeks ahead.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:10 pm
What we should do is look at the prostitution laws. If it was legal, it would be regulated and women who are victims would not be afraid to file complaints with the police.
How can we blame Craigslist for the recent murder in Boston. With that logic we would have to blame the internet, the hotel, the train that brought him to the hotel, the blackberry he was using, and the list goes on.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:35 pm
You know I was thinking maybe CL should put up a area where ppl can put pictures up of missing loved ones.. Or info on someone spotted maybe this will help. I my self have triveled to the cat skills this past month and it broke my heart as a mother of 2 to see a missing poster on a rest area of a mother BEGGING for help finding her 16 yr old daughter… I would have posted the picture on here if theres a area for it. just my thoughts to make the effet to protect our kids.. and loved ones..
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Here are two ideas (I run a well known social networking site with 4m users so i have some experience):
1. You need to BAN URLs in the custom locations in the personals category: instead of “San Francisco” or “Oakland” the spammers often post links like (www.INEEDSEX2NIGHT.info) as their LOCATION. Even after the post gets flagged, the title with the URL remains for a while, and thus spammers achieve their goal, which provides them with an incentive to spam more.
2. You need to introduce site moderators, that are chosen among users, much like administrators in wikipedia. Those mods should be able to delete posts with one click, and their deletions should be logged and visible to other mods, so that bad mods can be demodded. Look into Wikipedia process on how they choose administrators.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 pm
It’s sad that, when a sex worker is murdered, it always ends with cries “stop the sex work”. How about “stop the murdering nuts from killing”?
Victims of Boston killer are now victimized twice - once by the murderer, and again by persecution of them and their sex work sisters.
With all the media rage against Craigslist and other Internet venues for risque advertisement, no one is bringing up the fact that since such advertising became common, your neighborhoods have less street walkers, sex workers are *less* likely to come to harm then in the past when they were getting into stranger’s cars and dark alleys, and less likely to be herded by pimps who handled the high cost of newspaper advertising.
In effect, what the public is saying when attacking Craigslist is “I don’t want to deal with the idea that some people sell sexual services for living. Get them out of my face and back into the night, so I can continue pretending it’s not happening”.
Do you really believe that driving women onto streets once again will make them safer?
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:36 am
Being the mother of a son Perry who was murdered there really isnt much anyone can say to you to comfort you at this time. I know this, but I did get much relief to know that the animal who murdered my son is behind bars for the rest of his life, MOM! try to find some solace in the fact that he is behind bars and that by the grace of god justice will pervail. Many happy memories of your child, because no one can take that away from you.
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Loving webmistress complains ” it always ends with cries “stop the sex work”. How about “stop the murdering nuts from killing”?”
Because we know, via craigslist, who the sex workers are that are running their high risk trade?
Because we do not know who the killers are until after they’ve killed the sex-workers whose trade you are so quick idolize?
One would think that the most humane thing that could be done would be to not facilitate a killer locating his or her prey.
Trying to make money by selling anonymous sex is always fraught with high risk on a lot of levels. That’s not the fault of craigslist, but of those that have chosen the business. They know it and you know that they know it.
Still, if you run a business that makes it easier for an illegal business to go forward and something bad happens, you do have some responsibility for that attached to your business.
It’s a tangled web and a more tangled issue and finding a way through will be difficult. It won’t be found in the simple minded demand of “stop the killers from killing” ever. That’s just childish.
But I do know that Newmark knows the complications of this, and I imagine this whole thing is hitting him very hard in the soul. I don’t envy his position, but I am also sure he will do the right thing in the end. That’s the kind of person he is.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Hi
What we should do is look at the prostitution laws. If it was legal, it would be regulated and women who are victims would not be afraid to file complaints with the police.
April 24th, 2009 at 4:38 am
Craigslist should also take a look at the Therapeutic Section. The Thereapeutic Section is meant for (NON-EROTIC) ads, yet as surf the therapeutic section…….especially in Minnesota………there is a ton of erotic ads in the Therapeutic section. Why is Craigslist allowing erotic ads in the Therapeutic section??? It’s out of control!
April 24th, 2009 at 5:01 am
vanderleun, I’m not idolizing anything. The fact is that sex work is, the way things are now, dangerous. However, it’s been with us throughout the history, and it’s not *ever* going to go away. Even in the societies that kill sex workers on sight like some of the more fundamentalist countries, sex work still exists.
What you’re saying in effect is that, because it’s easier to persecute the victims of murder than the perpetrators, we should do so.
The solution that’s not based on knee-jerk puritan emotions but logic would be to direct the efforts to harm reduction, not further marginalizing.
If all kinds of informed, adult and consensual sex work were legal, people in it would be as free as you are to report crimes against them to police.
If the first victim of Boston killer had the option to report the crime to police without fear of being prosecuted and persecuted herself, *he might have been stopped before he killed anyone*. Would this stop all murders, rapes and robberies? No. Would there be less crime against sex workers? Yes. Is this simple-minded? Maybe. Truth is often simple.
People from all over the world have commented on the following article - reading the comments about the treatment of sex workers in their communities and its effect on crime is enlightening:
“Due to the Dutch system, I have never seen in my district a murdered prostitute and very seldom a beaten-up prostitute in my 30-year career as a police surgeon and forensic pathologist.”
Dr OS van Hees, MD, PhD, The Hague, The Netherlands
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6178793.stm
Regarding Craigslist -
Craig can’t stop all crime from happening on his web site - not in erotic services nor in real estate section. If you want a metaphor, when the subway system was invented, it became much easier for criminals to escape from the scene of the crime. Did public blame subways for crimes, or expect them to prevent crimes *committed outside of subway* from happening? The idea is absurd.
Any place where people mingle has been a crime scene once in a while - there were grisly “Facebook murders” and “Myspace rapes”. AOL chat rooms and dating web sites have been used for rape, murder and child molestation. Should we just turn off the Internet?
Craigslist has done a lot to prevent crime *on* the site already. It has no control over crime in the rest of our lives, any more than a phone company, another tool of communication, does. It’s been targeted only because that makes juicy news and elects politicians.
Some of the ideas proposed are doable and have merit, but they will not stop people from being people - good and bad of it.
April 24th, 2009 at 6:23 am
I don’t think making prostitution legal is going to help murder victims complain to the police…
April 24th, 2009 at 9:16 am
I agree prostitution should be legal in a regulated form, nationwide. I think the idea of moderators is a wonderful idea. There is a real problem of fake adds in the long term romance section that is hampering me from finding my life match. I have met many nice men through the wonderful dating section but my posting gets lost in the fake postings and I think it has discouraged many men from even looking. And Craig’s List has It’s image tarnished by every story of negative content. But thank you craig’s list for I believe I will eventually find my match of a progressive man. I know I will never give up.
Happy Earth Day
Peace
April 24th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
There are always going to be nut jobs out there. The so-called “Craigslist Killer” would have been the classifieds killer 10 years ago. What craigslist does need to be concerned about is the rampant amount of fraud that goes on, on your site daily. I have virtually stopped looking for an apartment using craigslist due to the fraud. Most of the scams are totally obvious once they reply to you. The problem is its a huge waste of time and completely contradicts the reason why I would use craigslist in the first place — convenience.
April 24th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
True, but that doesn’t help the dead does it? High risk behavior means just that — High risk. Making it legal might have some dampening effect on beatings, but making it reportable is also an argument for killing the victim.
April 24th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
vanderleun, did you read the linked article? What you and some others are talking about is not based on facts - there are plenty of examples of legalized sex work throughout the world. Some of the studies done show
that the crime against the sex workers, *as well as in general* was lessened significantly in countries that legalize sex work.
For example, “Prostitution and Sex Crimes” study by Kirby Cundiff shows a decrease both in rape (roughly 25%!) and also homicide in *general population*, not just sex workers, in countries in which prostitution is legal. meaning that your sister, as well as the prostitute down the street would be safer if prostitution is legal.
This article from World Health organization also correlates illegality of sex work and increased instances of STDs, blackmail, drugs, rape and other violence - sometimes by police itself. http://www.who.int/entity/gender/documents/sexworkers.pdf
The STD reference is not surprising when you know that condoms found on person or premises are considered incriminating evidence, here in Ca. too - a sex worker literally has a choice between saving her life, and lives of her customers, and increasing chances of going to jail. Luckily for all of us, most choose their health.
Health effects of legal vs. illegal sex work:
“In one Australian study carried out in 1998, the prevalence of sexually transmitted bacterial infections was *80 times greater* in 63 illegal street prostitutes than in 753 of their legal brothel counterparts….”
–from Nov. 18, 2000 The Lancet article “Prostitution, Public Health, and Human-Rights Law”.
The facts are more definite than opinions (except in religion :-). If you actually bother to read any factual publications on sex work, legalized sex work results in considerable decrease of violence, health and emotional issues in sex workers. Ever heard of Prohibition? Banning of booze resulted in years of organized crime and violence. Sounds familiar?
April 24th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
I just viewed an expose’ about CL on Nightline. I was pleased to see that Craig didn’t bow to the interviewer, and that he didn’t accept responsibility for the illegal actions of others. Based on the interviewers assertion that CL is responsible for prostitution, it must also be true that the auto industry is responsible for the deaths and injuries caused by drunk drivers.
FYI, I have never used or viewed the Personals section of the site, and I’m thankful for the freedom and the elevation of my quality of life that has occurred due to the advent of Craig’s List. Thank you for all that you do. It is greatly appreciated!
April 24th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
We all need to be very careful about this bad press. Because it is the press that has lost so much in outrageous fees from classified ads (remember them?). The press will use this as a wedge to demonize craigslist so they can get back the want ad business. The nightline piece was a hack job. I hope that someone out there can find all of the criminals that used the newspaper wanted/personal ads for their crimes. As bad as these acts are, the press is playing sour grapes. So for all the good that craigslist has done for all of us, watch your back. The press and their friends are against us.
April 25th, 2009 at 12:05 am
Craig,
Why didn’t you mention on your Nightline appearance, all of the criminals who have been apprehended due to being traced back to Craigslist. What about the underage prostitutes who have been identified and given the opportunity to better their lives. The thieves who have been caught trying to fence stolen property? Do the authorities think if Craigslist is gone or modified, prostitution, murder and thievery will dissappear? Of course it won’t, they will find other avenues to pursue their endeavors. Your Public Relations department needs a wake up call. Trying to buy your site respectability by donating to charities? That came across as sincere……not.
April 25th, 2009 at 5:06 am
this is very sad, but like one post said we cant just blame the train or the blackberry, we cant just blame craigslist.each indivial is responisble for them self their own behavior. its easier to blame others, with out looking at the situation. prostution is illegal in its self. it being against the law. should if be legalized?law enforcemt has to deal with illeagal prosituton every day.cause its illegal and crime follows it,my heart does go out to the family of the victim.
April 25th, 2009 at 9:15 am
Why is Attorney General Blumenthal so obsessed with craigslist?? Surely as the lead prosecutor in a major state, you must have more pressing issues than the erotic section of a website!?!
I don’t think these craigslist detractors appreciate how much the owners of craigslist already help them. It’s been proven in court that craigslist cannot be held liable for what’s posted on the site so the actions craigslis has taken are all voluntary. Authorities know that the only leverage they have is public pressure and by and large the public sides with craigslist in that legal interaction between consenting adults are best left to the community to police, not government.
So public pressure is not working.
But never underestimate the fanaticism of a overzealous prosecutor with the backing of government.
April 25th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Dear CEO & Founder,
Craigslist should remain exactly as it has been operating without interuption or restrictions. Otherwise, they would need to close every Motel 6 franchise in the nation since they’ve had similar crimes in the history of their existence. Why restrict Craigslist? It’s more the fault of the Marriot Hotel than Craigslist! The Marriot should have had adequate security to prevent armed robbery & murder. For example, any guest coming into the lobby should be required to provide ID at the front counter before going up the elevator. This would’ve stopped Markoff in his tracks! Some hotels even have metal detectors just like airports. Again, it is the Marriot who is liable, not Craigslist. Markoff could’ve called an escort service out of the phonebook for that matter.
Thanks Craigslist. Keep up the good service.
April 25th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Craigslist is not the problem! Craigslist has apparently done everything to advise users about “personal responsibility” for themselves. Craigslist just happens to be the biggest and best. Melony indicated the Craigslist should take a look at the therapeutic ads; they don’t need to do so, for they have always given all users the ability to use the flagging mechanism. Craigslist provides a valuable service for communicating, selling, buying, etc. Forcing it to add staff would force it to pass along costs to all consumers, because people do not want to be personally responsible for their actions. What happened in Mass. was horrible, but it wasn’t craigslist’s fault!
April 26th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Craigslist took a ‘bad hit’ on 48 Hours last night! However, what is the answer with finding a solution?
Maybe there should be a caution in bold print beginning of each category - Subject to Random Confimation! I realize you must have limited staff to be able check every poster who posts on any category on this site or anyone who responds. One suggestion could be to require not only name and email address given to post on here but telephone number and address also. And could the same requirement be put into effect when responding to a post on here? I click on a posting here you have my IP address but could anything be set up without much difficulty that pops up that requires my phone number and address be given before I can open one? Of course, it is a given that additional information is privy to Craigslist only unless …
When going into my favorite category ‘Pets’ I see many numbers listed to call if interested in a private adoption of a pet and I think that is foolish for one to put their number on here. You have a computer to post your listing then use Criagslist to get your responses back. That way Craigslist has not only your IP address with additional information but also the ones who respond to you or just read your Ad and that is a real safety factor.
April 26th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Aside from a magnificent display of his ignorance not only of technology but of craigslist operations, Blumenthal comes up with this one:
“Craigslist has the means — and moral obligation — to stop the pimping and prostituting in plain sight,” Blumenthal said. “Like any bricks and mortar establishment, craigslist has the responsibility and power to prohibit prostitution, pornography and inappropriate behavior on its premises.”
Well, the AG actually has a bricks and mortar establishment but doesn’t seem willing, or able, to do anything about prostitution and pimps by himself. I mean, if it’s in plain sight, why isn’t he arresting these lawbreakers? Isn’t that what attorney generals are supposed to do?
Perhaps the operative words are “plain sight”; his real agenda is to get The prostitutes and pimps back under the carpet where they won’t make him look bad.
Does craigslist need new procedures or the do the people of Connecticut need an attorney general with a clue?
April 27th, 2009 at 6:48 am
I saw the interview on Nightline, and I think we all share in a responsiblity to create self worth in our youth so they can grow up and be self confident in whatever they decide to do. In today’s cyber society, people young and old are exposed to fall victim to anything. With all the glitz and glamour to be had, we’ve created a false sense of worth in our society that has to end. I’m not saying this will end crime, but it’s sure to put a dent in it. I’m not convinced that a prostitute chooses this profession because he/she likes it, they chose it because they were lured into it or they’re trying to quickly get something they want and then its hard to stop because they then desire more and more. I couldn’t imagine what goes on in the mind of a killer, but I would have to guess there’s esteem issues going on there too among other things.
It’s my life’s mission to create self worth, self esteem in the lives of so many youth who don’t know they have options. We’re so quick to condemn individuals for their actions but we’re so reluctant to look at the big picture, like what have we done as a society to contribute to the derogatory actions of that person and what can we collectively do to fix it. When we really think about it, Craigslist is just an avenue people have created for supply and demand, no matter what the product is, even sex. If there was not so much demand, trust me, the supply wouldn’t be there. If there’s anything that we want to stop, all we have to do is stop buying into it!!
So Mr. Jim Buckmaster, if you’d like to donate funds to charity, how about donating to ours. You have our contact information attached to this reply. I pray the masses of our society will search within themselves to make a difference in someones life, rather than criticizing when it’s too late!!!
April 27th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
There is absolutely nothing Craigslist, or any other entity can do to prevent a deranged human from doing there bidding. Irresponsible people will always find some action that others will wait willingly to be able to blame others.
Stick to your guns Craigslist, your minions are 100% behind you.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Quite the hatchet job on Nightline. Craig, next time try & make the point that blaming Craigslist (CL) for the rare instance of predatory behavior by a user is akin to blaming the postal service for the anthrax letters: absolutely ridiculous.
CL takes every reasonable precaution against criminal activity being perpetrated via the site.
It just amazes me that corporate media (which has a financial interest in getting rid of CL) bestows responsibility for heinous acts by deranged individuals on CL itself! There have always been predators who’ve used personals ads as a way to lure victims; the only difference now is that CL is free. I believe THAT’s what really has Disney/ABC’s panties in a twist: CL doesn’t fit the greed-driven corporate model, and the suits just can’t stand it.
May 6th, 2009 at 1:16 am
A lot of prostitution and many other types of crime rings trace back to government and corporate insiders. Ever hear of the Franklin bank scandal or the Dyncorp or UN child trafficking stories? Do you know a lot of your kidnapped kids go to the UK, Saudi Arabia, etc to be used by elite perverts? The nastiest and most corrupt activities are coming from above, always has been that way always will be.
Colin
May 6th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
TYPICAL COPS CAN’T SOLVE CRIMES, SO BLAME SOMEONE ELSE… ALSO, CL IS FREE, A GIFT. THEY CAN’T DO IT FREE IF THEY HAVE TO HIRE PEOPLE TO INVESTIGATE EVERY AD.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Dear Craig:
Thanks for taking prompt action by getting rid of the Erotic Section. However, a legitimate masseuse in your new Adult Section can also be harmed by some crazy person so please don’t even start it.
A radio DJ and 3 other people here in Brooklyn got murdered by someone they met in The Casual Encounters Section in the last 4 years - so ban that too.
A woman got killed when some nutcase answered her nanny ad - so please ban the jobs section.
In fact, also ban the Real Estate section, the sales section (because now every psycho will pose as either a broker or may show up to “buy” your record collection.) In fact, ban any other section that may lead to possible human interaction - 95% of your site. Only then will I and every hardworking Attorney General will be satisfied.
Thank you.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Craigs List is operating a doule stsndard here
Just look in casual encounters and see the postings of the Males touting for business. I am all for protecting workers of all types sex workers or not. If you are going to clean up the system then clean it up don’t do half and discriminate against females.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Craigslist was on the forefront to defend freedom of speech and press and instead of fighting the good fight, they coward and crumbled against several crooked AG’s who are using tragedy as a platform to promote their own agenda.
What is going to happen when someone buys a car from the auto section and kills some one with it? Will you delete the car buying section?
May 15th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Why didn’t CL set up legal defense fund website and fight this political shake down. Given the history of Cook County’s Sheriffs, one has to start with the assumption that it is shake-down. CL must be cutting into the control, and revenue, that local criminals and their politicians are getting from prostitutes. Maybe the assumption is wrong, and Sheriff Dart and A.G. Madigan are starting with the noblest of motives . Ms. Madigan must have learned about noble motives at Loyola Law, since her dad is a successful Illinois pol (speaker of the house), how could she have learned them at home?
By giving in, and not seeking out help from the CL community, you are not only encouraging censorship, but enabling political corruption.