Striking a New Balance
As of today for all US craigslist sites, postings to the “erotic services” category will no longer be accepted, and in 7 days the category will be removed.
Also effective today for all US sites, a new category entitled “adult services” will be opened for postings by legal adult service providers. Each posting to this new category will be manually reviewed before appearing on the site, to ensure compliance with craigslist posting guidelines and terms of use. New postings will cost $10, but once approved, will be eligible for reposting at $5.
Unsurprisingly, but completely contrary to some of the sensationalistic journalism we’ve seen these past few weeks, the record is clear that use of craigslist classifieds is associated with far lower rates of violent crime than print classifieds, let alone rates of violent crime pertaining to American society as a whole.
The relative safety of craigslist compared to print classifieds is likely due to some combination of:
- Measures such as blocking, screening, and telephone verification
- Community moderation via our flagging system
- Electronic trail ensures violent criminals are quickly caught
- Personal safety tips prominently posted
- Unusually high level of cooperation with law enforcement
Community moderation as exemplified by our flagging system is arguably the most successful system ever conceived for eliminating inappropriate activity from a massive internet community. Working in tandem with various other protective technologies, it is an inescapable force to be reckoned with for anyone set on abusing free internet communications across a broad array of posting types.
However, with respect to this new paid category for advertising by legal businesses, we will experiment with some of the methods traditionally employed in paid print classifieds.
We’d like to thank everyone who has provided helpful input over the past few weeks, all of which was closely considered:
- Our users, whose suggestions shape every aspect of craigslist
- Attorneys General, who provided valuable constructive criticism
- Law Enforcement officers nationwide, hugely supportive as always
- Legally compliant businesses wishing to advertise their services
- EFF and other experts defending free speech and Internet law
We are optimistic that the new balance struck today will be an acceptable compromise from the perspective of these constituencies, and for the diverse US communities that value and rely upon craigslist.
Note: Our announced intention to contribute 100% of net revenues for the “erotic services” category to charity has been fulfilled, and will continue to be fulfilled, notwithstanding criticism questioning our good faith in this regard. However, in light of today’s changes, and to avoid any future misunderstanding, we are making no representation regarding how revenue from the “adult services” category will be used. Our commitment to philanthropy remains, and craigslist will continue to develop its charitable initiatives.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
this is absolutely crazy. I have posted in the erotic services area for 2 years and I have never had any issues with crazy people. I have met some very nice people, and this is a sad day for CL.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Craigslist, by deciding no longer to advocate for stalking, murder and misogyny, you have done the right thing. I wish you would not even bother opening some new, heavily moderated adult section. Just drop all of the psycho stuff and get back to more constructive endeavors. The women of America will thank you!
May 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
hi jim, thanks for posting on the issue. i am doing a story on craigslist agreement with AGs over the ‘erotic services’ category. i’d like to talk to jyou about the agreement, including why you decided to make this move, pros and cons, etc…
i’m in new york so my deadline is about 6 p.m. eastern time. thx so much.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Craigslist is to be commended for developing such a balanced approach, which both preserves and underscores its historical role as a disinterested marketplace.
If attorneys general and law enforcement authorities wish to continue their efforts in regulating the marketing of commercial sex on the internet, they would do better focusing their efforts on the websites (and they are not too hard to find) that are owned and operated by persons who have a vested interest in promoting commercial sex.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
I think this is a great step for craigslist. I can see how it will negativly effect people who abuse the use of the erotic section, posting for prostitution or offering services at crack head prices, but for people who are offering legal and legitimate business services, catering to the desires of an adult audience…I say BRAVO!
Over the last few years, especially the last two I have watched the quality of services steadily decline. The last straw for me was the posting I saw of a young woman offering her self for $40 for 15 mins. Her ad read “ANY HOLE YOU WANT” and her picture re enforced the saying it’s not lady like to spit. I mean come on…prostitution may be the worlds oldest profession, but there is a HUGE difference between a prostitute and a street hooker with internet access.
Although I do not engage in prostitution myself, I do know dozens of women who do. Being in adult entertainment for almost 6 years not much that surprises me. The best we can do is educate women on how to keep themselves safe and protected when they decide to take on such a high risk job. I only wish more states were as liberal as Las Vegas and realized that as long as prostitution is ILLEGAL it will always be a breeding ground of disasters. Once made legal, not only do you eliminate most of the underage activity that is so popular here in Atlanta, but you also have the opportunity to raise tons of tax revenue for a city that is always crying broke. Besides the issue of age and money, you have FAR less instances of women being pimped, you have regulations of business practices because the individuals have to be licensed and you can better enforce health screening. In adult films as well as in my fetish fantasy play, all of our models are tested for everything under the sun every 21 days. For those of you that are not familiar with A.I.M. (Adult Industry Medical), please do yourself a favor and check out their website at http://www.aim-med.org. Also be sure to take a look at http://www.sexcheck.org where you can look up current test result of individuals before you see them by using their stage name and any consecutive 4 digits of their s.s # or d.l.#. Incredible tool for those of you that are offering or receiving intimate personal encounters. Remember guys…safety first!
Ciao
May 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
What do snails, jellyfish, and Craigslist have in common? All are entities without a backbone or a spine. Cheese eating surrender monkeys, Texas Hold ‘em players holding 7’s and 3’s, and Craigslist…3 groups that fold and run away on the spot. I used to take so much neighborhood pride riding up on the N-Judah past the Craigslist house. Not anymore. You were in the right, had public opinion and the law on your side, and you caved to publicity seeking glory hound politicians. Affect on crime? 0 Impact on the world’s oldest profession? 0 Participation in the chipping away of civil liberties and free expression? 100
May 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Balance? Hardly. Camouflage more likely. What suffers is free speech in the process. Stop sucking up to these nerd politicians.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
So, do you consider this “doing the right thing,” or some sort of capitulation?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
This seems like a reasonable, workable solution. Yay!
May 13th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Thanks for caving.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
sorry things have been so rough for all ya’ll. hopefully there will be good from all of this.
you’ve done good by me,
am
May 13th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I’m so disappointed by this. I completely understand the circumstances for this “compromise”.
But as an avid supporter of free speech and civil liberties, I hate to see this happen.
Thanks for fighting the good fight overall.
Best wishes…
May 13th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
What’s the definition of “legal adult service providers”?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I think that’s a great idea! Long overdue.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
It’s a sad day when AGs can threaten people and then they cave in..i’m very dissappointed that CL caved in to the demands of a few people that are trying to dictate what is moral and what is not….Shame on you craigslist…This violates the freedom that everyone has in this country to express one’s self…If this man who is accused of killing women would not have found someone on CL,he would have found found someone in the paper or somewhere else..This seems to be why the new censorship policy was put into place…..sad,sad,sad..day…..Bob
May 13th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
A very smart and I’m sure well-intentioned move. But why only in the US? The same problems exist in Canada and many other countries as well. It just has the feel that this move was in reaction to a legal challenge, not an honest attempt to be ‘moral’. Otherwise, why not make it worldwide over the entire Craigslist system, or at least everywhere prostitution is illegal?
May 13th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
wow. sorry to hear this. i can only speak for myself, but i don’t & won’t hold you responsible for how people choose to use your service. craigslist is a wonderful thing.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Now please monitor the Dating sections as well as those are completely infested already with scammers and prostitutes. Don’t believe me? Just check them out, read some and reply to a few and see what kind of junk you get in return.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
SHAMEFUL!!!!!!!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
By caving to the AG Bullies, Craigslist has now created a nexus by which it will take on responsibility, legal and financial, for all activities in the newly “moderated” adult section…
after such a complete and cowardly capitulation, unfortunately it will be hard to feel sorry for Craigslist after the first multi-million $ lawsuit takes them out…
May 13th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Jim, it’s 7-2 that is auto folded in Texas Holdem, not 7-3.
Um, what’s the definition of a legal adult services provider? How does one screen for a provider’s legal status?
May 13th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Just read between the lines, the adult services section will effectively replace the erotic services section. the only difference is that the pictures will have no nudity.
This is the American way, so stop whining.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Great! Now I have to drive to the bad part of town to hire a prostitute. I’ll probably end up getting mugged and buying crack.
You have the great privilege of guiding this community. You also have the responsibility of defending it. Please stop listening to the whims of the minority.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
I’m a big believer in freedom of expression and speech, but this is an evolving practice on the internet (still), and we’re tragically learning there’s much trickery and mirage. Legal prostitution is one thing. Duping someone for rape, another.
Thank you, thank you CL for moving this experiment along in a far more honest direction. And I agree with some above: You can do more. Your good “self choice/free market” intentions are swindled often, outside of your radar.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
This is ridiculous. Why not censor missed encounters and casual encounters? Heck, why not make the whole of CL paid and non-anonymous? Puritan, I say.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Your mama didn’t raise no fool. Well done!
May 13th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
I am sure some smart cookie is lined up to make a good fast buck by setting up some decent competition to caveslist “offshore”.
May 13th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Comparing the listings on the erotic services site, to the adult services site, there really doesn’t seem to be a difference at all, except that you can’t search on w4m or m4w on the new site, which makes things less efficent.
May 13th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Thank God you are closing the ‘erotic services’ section. Now, prostitution and other illegal adult actions Craigslist has been accused of supporting will no longer be in existence. Without your ads, prostitution will cease to exist. Praise Jesus. Oh, and pass whatever you are smoking.
You should also shut down your personals section, because I’m pretty sure someone somewhere has met someone from your ads who was less-than-honest in their description of themselves. Fraud. That is not acceptable. And you should also close your ‘for sale’ section, because many of the items were probably stolen or defective, and some poor fool got cheated. Fraud. That is not acceptable. And the ‘jobs’ section should definitely be closed because so many ‘jobs’ are either scams or telemarketing passed off as real jobs. Fraud. That is not acceptable.
Actually, what you should do is just shut down entirely. You caved to a bunch of yellow journalists, Bible-thumpers, and political opportunists. Shame on you. You don’t deserve the success you’ve enjoyed.
May 13th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Lets see, I have been the victim of crime and the attempted victim of crime more times than I can count while using EBay. Where were the attorney generals and law enforcement then? I guess they were all browsing the erotic ads on Craigslist wondering how they could prevent consensual sex between adults.
Scams, fraud, and other illegal crimes are rampant on all of the internet sites, yet that is all ignored by the law enforcement idiots. It is so much easier to sting a 23 year old woman who wants to make a living from sex than it is to catch the scammers who steal MILLIONS from citizens every day. So that is what they do. Bravo all you brave government authorities. You really protected us from ourselves today!! You are all gutless, spineless, and not worth the money I pay you.
May 13th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
I’m tired of the politicians trying to depict all prostitution as enslaved children. Most of the posts were from self-employed independent escorts. But we has self important, holier than thou scum like Lara in the second post up above who claim to speak for the “women of America.”
Hey, Lara! Why do you want to dictate to other women what they can and can’t do with their bodies? Do you oppose abortion, too? You some sort of religious person who wants to impose your morals on others? Mind your own business!
That being said, I don’t hold this against CL at all. At the end of the day you can’t fight city hall when they really start to focus on you. They have ALL the money and ALL the power and they have naive, ignorant, “useful idiots” like Lara, Lorry and Carl above who cheer them on, begging the government to dictate their morals and those of people they have never met.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
JIM
YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A SPINELESS HUMAN BEING
May 13th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
I am disgusted by all the negative publicity surrounding Craigslist. Let me just cut right to the chase: Craigslist is a terrific “public good”. One can post ads for free in most categories, and one has an excellent shot at getting one or more of the type of response one’s seeking. On the flipside, if you need something, Craigslist is an excellent place to start your search…and if nothing else to test the waters before continuing your search elsewhere. For example, as a computer programmer, I might be interested in determining the most in-demand computer skills, in 2009. Reading an old reference guide about what was hot in 2006 or 2007 just won’t cut it, as the industry’s changing too fast.
I can’t even begin to itemize all the ways that I’ve been assisted by being able to post my FREE ads on Craigslist. I will, however, mention the instance that really took the cake for me: In 2006 I sold a $13,000 Honda Civic on the New Jersey Craigslist page, but only after spinning my wheels and wasting time using other used car sales methods.
Quite simply, Craigslist connects buyers and sellers. Realistically there will always be a few sinister people in the mix who perpetrate terrible deeds, but this is true everywhere in society. Just ask the parents of the downtown Manhattan nightclub who lost their daughter to a freak bouncer, or the parents of the Central Park jogger who, pre- Internet days, was attacked by group of young men when jogging in Central Park at 9 p.m. To those who would curtail Craigslist: would you also put a big fence around Central Park and close the gate at dark, just in case a gang of thugs might walk through looking for trouble?
May 13th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Now please monitor the Dating sections as well as those are completely infested already with scammers and prostitutes. Don’t believe me? Just check them out, read some and reply to a few and see what kind of junk you get in return.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
This is a terrible connection between Craigslist and the killings, and as a result I feel that by closing the Erotic Section of Craigslist this will ultimately fuel more deaths from women not being able to filter their clientele and resorting to the traditional methods of meeting their Johns once again.
Sure there was a killer on Craigslist killing women, and this is never right. But how many more women are killed/raped or abused offline while Craigslist was operating anyways?
May 13th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Our country is stupid. Mind your fucking business with regards to what people want to do with their bodies.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
The greatest irony of all this is that despite the popular dogma that CL management is led by forward thinking people with their finger on the pulse of the internet, in reality they have never successfully anticipated and planned for these kinds of contingencies, but instead have reacted ONLY when things have gotten so out of hand that they attract media and legal attention and can’t be ignored any longer.
In so doing, they have allowed everyone *but* themselves to actually determine and drive the direction that the site has taken, from spammers, scammers and serial trolls to hookers to posturing law enforcement officials…those people mold and shape the site and staff only comes along afterwards to try to put things back in some semblance of order.
hardly the bold visionaries that their sycophants would have you believe. When asked to comment the answers are always the same- blame the users for not flagging enough, claim that expecting staff to have a proactive vision and to implement it is unfair because CL is just an “experiment” that really belongs to the “community”, point fingers at other advertising media and journalists when their own failings can’t be ignored, act as if the desire to maintain an absurdly small staff no matter how much traffic (and millions in revenue) the site gets is sacrosanct, etc.
Anti prostitution efforts and the idea that CL has any responsibility for mayhem and murder committed by its advertisers or respondents are stupid, and I would have some sympathy for CL if it weren’t for the fact that its staff has consistently ignored users sincerely trying to help proactively change things for the better via feedback and especially asking for official clarifications of the rules, has secretively changed rules on a whim with no notice or explanation and seems to revel in the confusion and rancor it causes, blatantly plays favorites among users behind the scenes while pretending to stand for fairness and equality, and generally acts like they exist in a vacuum where they are only responsible to themselves.
Bottom line is that CL has grown and flourished in spite of its management, not because of it, and like Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice they are complacently running around trying to stem the tide of what their actions/inactions have unleashed, all the while clueless as to how to stop it or how things even got so bad, or what lies ahead as a result of their panicked response- they say that they are now going to “experiment with some of the methods traditionally employed in paid print classifieds”, in the same breath that they point to how poorly these methods have worked in preventing crime…? Rather than stick to their principles and not accept responsibility where none is due regarding adult ads, they cave to pressure from political hacks and are now going to put themselves squarely in a place where they and they alone are responsible for what gets posted in an adult services category and will be rightly seen as the gatekeepers who OKed and took money for any future ads that result in criminal acts…?
That’s not a reasonable or logical course of action…but then again, Craig is the guy who likes to say, “I don’t believe in logic…”
Like Mickey or the organizers of Woodstock, CL’s management at this point are in over their heads and don’t even realize it, and have completely lost control of what they started…the one sure bet is that whatever the final outcome is, they won’t be the ones at the controls making bold decisions that guide everything back to a safe and sound place, all they can do is hang on for dear life.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Wow, it’s quite funny to see that Erotic section is only being removed in the the United States. I thought this was the land of the Free and the home of the Brave. I thought we had a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that protected are Liberty to do and think what we want as long as we didn’t harm others. I can see by the actions of Craigslist that we don’t. I mean who the hell said that being a Escort was wrong? Who made that choice? Who said they could make Our decisions for us? This is America dammit!!!
Screw you Craigslist, for being a bunch of politically correct Whores!!!!!
BACKPAGEDOTCOM BACKPAGEDOTCOM BACKPAGEDOTCOM
May 13th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
So what about the casual encounters? Will that be gone too?
May 13th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Say goodbye to casual encounters as well, hell why not get rid of the entire personals section, because guess what… thats where they will go.
Craigslist bent over for the cross bullies and the PC feaks, I for one will start looking for a new site with backbone.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:27 am
Wow, no more ads to read for amusement. Guess I will have to go out and shop for a gun. I mean, obviously what harm can a gun do? They only kill thousands of people a year. But those craigslist ads… Very dangerous.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:30 am
CAPITULATE
v. to capitulate (third-person singular simple present capitulates, present participle capitulating, simple past and past participle capitulated)
1. To end all resistance; to give up; to go along with or comply; may imply compliance with an enemy or to end all resistance because of loss of hope
**********************************************
Craigslist has officially knelt before Zod. Pathetic!
May 14th, 2009 at 4:20 am
People are so fucking dumb! As if this is going to make any sort of difference in the world at all. Land of the free…….my fucking ass! You might as well shut down the whole site.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:57 am
The government should be cleaning up our streets. In the whole scope of things the internet community is much safer than walking on the streets of Chicago, IL or Gary, IN for that matter. I have a cleaning service and I meet many from Craigslist and have never had a bad experience with someone I don’t know. Most people out here are very cool. People should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies. With the way our country is going people have no choice but to take risks these days. Leave Craigslist alone and allow people freedom of choice and speech. Our government is just taking away more rights from us.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:00 am
This is just further proof that the US is a puritannical country. I agree that under-age prostitution is despicable, but most encounters from craigslist, other web sites, or print media, are between consenting adults and nobody is getting hurt.
At the very least, if you’re going to capitulate and do this, give us CATEGORIES like you had. This is ridiculous, and already other web sites are getting increased business from legitimate adult providers who are fed up with craigslist.
Those holier-than-thou types should take a deep breath and remember that this is a free country and not a one-size-fits-all one. They’re the same people that want to dictate what people do in their bedrooms and with their own bodies. Shame on them! And craigslist should not have given in.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:02 am
I have thought all along this scapegoating of your site was so awful, really Orwellian. And the way they took this psycho jerk and turned him into a wedge that could be used against prostitutes…ugh.
Who benefited from this? Really. I wish you would really let your hair down at some point and give us even more candor. At this point, I can see why you keep your cards close to your vest.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:18 am
I run a site that is only ads for escorts to advertise on. I have to say this, if it comes to the point these jerks ask me to supply personal info or alter my site in anyway I will shut the site down and reopen it in a country that has no dealings with the US.
I pay taxes, and believe me it is a lot. I would be more than happy not to have pay these taxes in other countries.
I think it is going to take a group of ladies to file a law suit against these states in an event like Rowe vs. Wade. These bodies belong to to them and only them. If they choose to have sexual intercourse for money or not that is their business and body. There is no difference in the fact that women and men are paid to be actors in a porn film, they are being paid to have sex. Look at beauty pageants, it is all about sex appeal, there is nothing talented about a woman parading around in an evening gown and bathing suit. It is all about how you perceive the level of nudity.
I have paid for sex my whole life. Yes it is true, every girl I have ever been was in the terms of a “sex for sale”, a prostitute. I had to pay for dinner, drinks, movies and tons of other stuff to get a woman to have sex, every guy does it. Even you southern baptist who camouflage it with words like “courting”. The act of paying for sex with a escort pr prostitute is like a fast food version of dating. Face it Americans want everything now and fast, we hate to wait.
Dating is a lot like a slot machine or the stock market, you keep inverting time and money in and hope one day it will pay off. Those that use escorts have found the machine and stocks that payout every time.
It will not be long before people like this bible thumping politician in SC will be saying that you can not have sex before marriage as it against the values of the southern baptist. I am sorry any group of people that believes in a being they have never seen, a book written over a 1000 years ago, and prays to a being they can not see are crazy. Last time I checked if you think you have an imaginary friend and talk to people that are not there they lock you ass up and medicate you severely.
Stop pushing your values on me and keep you religion to your self. As for kids seeing these types of ads and porn, yes I am with you I don’t think they should. But, if all you parents out there stop leaving the raising of your children to the wold and be parents you would not have that problem. You made the choice to have kids, so raise them! There are tons of programs out there that will limit you kids from accessing sites like this. My site is registered voluntarily with four of them. Stop being lazy, if you can afford a computer you can afford a program to “Protect” your child from what really goes on in the in the news and real life. I hear Lowe’s is having a sale on plastic wrap if you want to make a bubble room for them.
Bottom line prostitution has been around from the beginning of time and you will never stop it. All you can ever hope for it to regulate it and use the money to pay for a national health care system or bail this country out of the economic mess we are in.
If you don’t approve of the ads why are you looking at them to begin with. As for law enforcement, why are you bitching about these ads, how easy does this site make your job? “Well Gomer and Barney, we need some arrest to pay for the bright shiny light on the top of the car. Lets go shopping on Craigslist and get us some of those hookers to fine.”, lmfao…….
Well, I will step off my soapbox as I am sure some religious nut will have to chime in here now. Why to go Craigslist, not that you don’t have a spine I will see if I can find something to sue you for, it is a free for all on suing Craigslist.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:22 am
I don’t spend any time thinking about what goes one/went on in the erotic services section, nor do I care what the new “adult” area will be like, but what about the rest of Craigslist? As others have noted, the W4M portion of “long term relationship” section is now infested with spammers and, increasingly, prostitutes. “Casual Encounters” has for some time been exclusively the domain of spammers and prostitutes. I know, “flag them”, but because of their number and technical assets, we’ve long since passed the point where flagging works — it is a fact that it simply does not, and these areas have ceased to serve their originally intended functions. Merely chasing prostitution out of one corner of Craigslist no more ends prostitution on Craigslist than the beat cop, clearing one (and only one) street corner in olden days prevented it from appearing on the next.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:11 am
The Gestapo Government strikes again. Sieg Heil !
May 14th, 2009 at 8:12 am
All you guys getting so angry at CL for this is funny. It’s as if CL is your property or your legal right. A liquor store attracts drug dealing loiterers and decides to move to another neighborhood. You get mad at the store. A porn movie theatre decides to add family films to increase business, hence showing X rated late at night only. You get mad at the theatre owners.
I hope CL is thick-skinned to this kind of midirected anger. More power to you for being open to evolution.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Personally, I don’t see how this is going to do any good. The people who post erotic services, porn sites and other websites just glommed onto casual encounters years ago when they started being charged to post under erotic services.
I’m sorry the boston guy used CL as a vehicle for his crimes but if he didn’t use CL, he would have used something else, so no point in causing anymore of these people to clutter up Casual Encounters.
Since we know they will, however, I propose a new section: Married for married in the relationship area as well as in the casual encounters area…but especially in the relationship area where singles and married people definitely have distinctly different goals and interests, but both have a legitimate need to fill.
So, under personals, Add MW seeking MM and all the appropriate iterations or just make a new heading called “married” and put all the subsections in that.
Anyone else think this is worthwhile?
May 14th, 2009 at 8:17 am
One word on this….
DISAPPOINTED.
Disappointed in Craigs List. for (yes, I’ll say it) caving in. Disappointed in our country’s continued attempts to make moral decisions for its citizens.
Try this one. If you don’t like something, don’t look at it. If something on TV or in the movies offends you, don’t watch it. Mr South Carolina and New York AG - if YOUR citizens need babysitters, hire one. Leave the rest of us adults who can control our own behaviors be.
What kind of uproar in support of free speech do we need to right this wrong. Today sirs (CraigsList and government watchmen), you have done the tenets of our constitution a GREAT disservice and brought us one step closer to the institutionalized morality touted by the likes of the Taliban. Religious extremism is winning, even in America, and people sit around with their arms crossed an heads nodding as if it is OK.
Disappointed.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:35 am
This is the USA not Taleban …..
Taleban controled how the men and women dressed and what part of thier body to cover and banned many things including TV and Radios we went after then in the name of “FREEDOM” ….
One day some other super power country will come to “FREE US” here in the USA …
It is our body and we can do whatever we want with it al long as we are an adults and not harming anyone eles ………plus it is more fun to have sex with a paid well trained hooker than some dumb ass pesron who sy i don’t like to do this and I don’t like to do that or (my favorite) I am not this type of person ….
Please free us from some of us
May 14th, 2009 at 8:49 am
This decision by CL sucks. Many eloquent posters already expounded on the reasons why, I just wanted to add a “me too” to the negs.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:04 am
http://www.backpage.com
Same thing…Smaller audience
May 14th, 2009 at 9:25 am
It is a sad thing that you have to make changes like this.
Craigslist did no wrong and you are coerced into changing.
What next, paid personals?
May 14th, 2009 at 10:50 am
[…] meet online censorship. Oh, and “erotic services” - meet “adult services” Yup, craigslist is replacing “erotic services” with “adult services.” Which is completely different because - well - because “erotic” sounds fun and “adult” sounds […]
May 14th, 2009 at 10:55 am
It only took four months after Obama became president for this to happen. It’s Obama’s fault.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:11 am
I did not expect CL to fall on the sword for this issue it was a no win situation after the murderer was called the CL killer. The ES section was used by providers that were on a lower scale than the women that advertise on paid sites. Prostitution will continue there are other free sites that providers can use. What goes on between two consenting adults in a motel room should not be illegal anyway. Very few woman are forced to do this they do it because they can make a lot of money. Today I can drive from downtown Detroit cross a bridge or the tunnel across the river and go to Windsor Ontario and hire an escort legally. Escorts are licensed there I can also buy and smoke a Cuban cigar. These things are still illegal in the United States why?
May 14th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Craigslist disappoint me for not defending free speech and falling to the MORALITY politics that make no sense. Craigslist has contributed to the demise of the FREE internet.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:52 am
What are the internet cops going to shut down next may-be Gaming.
Wake up America your freedoms are being taken away.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Now I will have to go back on section 8 welfare to support my thee kids and let the Tax payers pick up the bill————–The Wolfgirl————
May 14th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I’m sure by now you know this very well that: You are being attacked because YOU HAVE CHANGED the whole concept of newspaper monopoly, as we know it. You have served the masses a great deal and what are after you are the forces of ill wishers and news elite people who hate you. So this means you are doing the right thing.
So the challenge for you is: DO NOT ALLOW these LOSERS of the industry—Yes including NY Times, W. Post and alike—to change what you have done. I’m impressed with you, since by now, after being able to make tons and tons of money, still you have kept you original commitment to your customers. So I admire your consistency everyday and I wonder when you will throw the towel and sell yourself and soul to the highest bidder.
Keep up the good work, and also know this that these State AGs, are all drooling about running for Senate or governership, just like that former NY Governor. So what they are doing is PHONY and I’m sick of this STUPID PHONINESS that is worse than Swine flue in this country.
So don’t give up and keep going, PLEASE.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
I think that craigslist is doing what they have to do and trying to strick a balance so that everyone can be happy.
I do know the laws in canada in regards to prostitution and pimping would be that if a girl where to give anybody money or anything that cost her any kind of money would then considered pimping that girl… so how does that work? if i am with an agency is that agency then not pimping me? or if i have to pay for my advertising.. is that not pimping too?????? just saying….
i enjoy very much being an “indy” girl and have used the erotic section to post and have met some great people there!!
I also agree that if you dont like to look at erotic ads.. then why are you going there????? i dont like looking at political bullshit, so i dont waste my time to look at it… doesnt it work both ways?
many of us ladies on craigslist are educated and do very well for ourselves… what so wrong with that? most have made and educated and informed CHOICE to be where we are, and if not then that is where the flagging system comes in!!!!!
there a crazy killer people everywhere in society, and ya it is super sucks that they feel that us girls are easy prey.. and we are, but only because society has put us where we are… if the few people who do not agree with what we are doing and we were ALLOWED, we would for sure have safer working conditions, be paying taxes and would not be considered the slime of society.. heck if we had the opportuinty to legally pay taxes.. wow would we even be in economic hardship? heck we would have benifets and be able to invest our money and have a fine retirement too!!!
i think some of the laws that govern society are stale, outdated and need to be revamped… this is not the oldest proffession without reason!!!!!!!!
May 14th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
How pathetic. CL has the chance to stand up and say “we are not law enforcement and it’s not our responsibility to do your jobs” and you fold. Even sadder, though, is that it’s done under this baloney pretense to somehow many anyone safer. Nothing about an underground economy and activity is safer. Sex workers are victimized because the scumbags know they’re less likely to get in trouble, their victims are less likely to file charges and the authorities are less likely to care.
By being a part of pushing this stuff farther into the shadows CL is being an active participant in marginalizing these people.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
CL used to stand for something, now it just sits and rolls over…
May 14th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Most of the flagging that went on in the Erotic Services before paid ads was done by competing prostitutes not by those concerned about the moral fiber of their community. Having to pay for the ads seem to cut down on the advertising by street walkers. Personally, I’m sorry to see the section go. But I guess CL had to do what they had to do. I’m wondering how local law enforcement will spend their time with out having Craigs List around to entrap citizens. Maybe they’ll be forced to go out and do real police work. What’s the local 11 o’clock news going to report on without new Craig List stings to report on? I love it when someone else dictates what my morals should be….NOT!
I’ve always enjoyed everything about Craigs List, that is until recently. I think CL has become a victim of it’s own success. Given the number of employees it’s become too large and unwieldy. The Rant and Raves section used to be fun to read. Not any more. What was once a good source of people exchanging opinions has been taken over in each city by a few people spewing racist remarks all day. Many do get flagged but the R&R section is a total loss. Too bad.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
This is a sad day, the beginning of the end for Craigslist. Cuomo and his A.G. friends are nasty little bullies. And as we all know, when you try to appease a bully, you get bullied even more. These politicians won’t let up until they have made names for themselves driving Craigslist out of business. To paraphrase T.S. Eliot, this is the way that Craigslist ends, not with a bang but a whimper. At least you could have gone down fighting for your and our rights.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
I manage a hotel in Hollywood where the vice squad regularly approaches the hotels for free rooms to set up stings after running ads on Craigslist. Meanwhile down the street people get mugged, cars get stolen, and break ins occur. Something is warped in our society when the control freaks get to legislate what others do sexually with other consenting adults and attorneys general waste time, taxpayors money, and court time in order to posture for a run for Governor. Craigslist was once a beacon of free entrepreneurship, now its a symbol of paid off ass kissing lackeys.
PS the new adult section sucks, and not in a fun way.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
I can’t believe you caved. Don’t you realize your site was prefectly legal? What the hell is wrong with you people? Are you going to start turning over logs of every person who views adult content now, too?
May 14th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Blah blah blah, we capitulated, don’t hate us?
May 14th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Prior to this move you could find maybe 1 out of 10 (conservatively) real ads in the NORMAL dating section. Now, after only 1 day, there are nothing but fake bot ads and escorts.
May 14th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Charge me.. I want to give you my money…I will help you out of these people who have blamed Cl for every bad things in the world.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
After reading/browsing most of the posts above I am dissapointed that more women, particulary independent escorts that post on CL haven’t responded with comments. It’s these women that will be most negatively affected by this action as has already been mentioned due to a lessened ability to screen their clients. I would point to two posts just above that illustrate the fallout; one from Cute Sexy in Cana and the one from Dave that follows. Both of these posts mention safety and the actions like the one by CL further marginalize sex workers and put them in harm’s way. As Cute Sexy said in her post, they don’t call it the world’s oldest profession for nothing and it won’t be going away so the least we as a society can do is make it safer for all concerned.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
It seems to me that if erotic service providers are not allowed to advertise thier services on the internet, they may be forced to walk the streets to find customers. I would hope that law enforcement would understand this. Using the internet to advertise and set up a meeting means a lot less protitution on the streets. Out of site and out of mind.
May 14th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
“mamacita Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 8:12 am
All you guys getting so angry at CL for this is funny. ”
No. You don’t get it. I am upset that CL caved. But I am even more ANGRY at the two faced moral majority juggheads, the ones who stand up and prosecute “John’s” when they themselves - who have wives and families, hire expensive ladies of the evening when they leave the office at night and go to a very expensive Hotels or Condos which they pay for while most of us can barely afford the rented roof over our heads. Then they turn around and make an example because they are trying to make a career for themselves by making an example out of this and a bigger deal then it should be.
We have had many school shootings and gang violence continues as well as beatings broadcasted on youtube. But God forbid that anyone have sex. We have seen time and time again by what gets produced on TV that violence gets a seal of approval but the minute something gets even a little risque it’s time to shut it down.
The truth is there will be no change. This will make no difference.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:18 am
This is a fail, Craigslist.
It’s like telling kids in high school they can’t drink on school property. That will stop them from drinking, right?
Honestly, it’s too bad adults aren’t treated like ADULTS in this country. And it’s even more disappointing that Craigslist is giving up completely.
May 15th, 2009 at 2:26 am
I love CL
May 15th, 2009 at 5:06 am
WWWWTTTTFFFFFF NOW ALL THE GUYS ARE GOING TO START BEING SEX FIENDS CAUSE WE CANT GET LAIDED AN OVERRUN ON JAIL GET READY!!!!!!!!! BACK TO THE BLOCKS , PIMPS BACK IN BIZ ,RAPE
May 15th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Given the fervor of the “..my constituents will vote me out of office unless I (am seen to be doing) / do something about this..” people combined with those “..I am morally outraged at this public service offering these services..” types and not forgetting the “..we tracked down a killer who posted in Craigslist therefore ALL posters are potentially criminal..” panickers, I do understand that CL had to do this. If they didnt, those described above would not have stopped until they had made / trumped up multiple prima facia cases against CL and would have not stopped until the ENTIRE site was shut down. I think in a way this is an intelligent move by CL but - as already mentioned hundreds of times previously - one that denotes a sad day for free speech, the constitution and 3rd party contributor service providers in the US.
May 15th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
So, how many of you legalize prostitution, and pornography as free speech thumpers have marched down main street with “Legalize the worlds oldest profession,” and “Make pornography easily assessable to children” placards, huh?
Yeah. That’s what I thought.
“Nah, I’ll just let Jimmy & Craig put everything they’ve worked for on the line while I hide behind my fake little screen name.”
May 15th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
The one unfortunate thing about all this is that independent sex workers may be forced to share even more of their income with the owners of prostitution message boards who have a vested interest in promoting commercial sex. Craigslist has always given those sex workers more freedom. It’d be sad to see that disappear.
May 15th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
I’m kinda on the fence with this. After reading some of the posts, I kinda agree with someone like Nasus. It’s not our business, it’s theirs. This is their way of not getting F’ed by the biggest mafia in the world, the US Government. It doesn’t matter if it’s free speech. We all know that the big G doesn’t care about the constitution anymore. I think GW burned it as soon as he was re-elected.
On the other hand, this kinda feels like a quicky solution. Almost like a panic situation. I think they could offer the same exact service, but create a login part for that. They’ve changed the way that you sell electronics, why not change the way that you view erotic services? Even youtube has something like that. You can view all the videos you want without logging in, but if one is adult content, you have to log in.
May 16th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Way to cave, and NOT stand up for the first Amendment, Craig. I am very disappointed. Our freedom of speech is too important to give up because of self-serving posturing by government figures.
Law enforcement is free to pursue those who post unlawful ads. However, that should not prevent this valuable service from being available to those who post lawful content.
Furthermore, the community is/was free to flag inappropriate ads. However, it is also clear that this category is/was very popular and highly demanded by the community. Craig you need to stand-up for the First Amendment and your customers!!
May 16th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Way to bend over and take it. Did you lube up first? We’re all forgetting that CL is more a business than a service. What was made was a business decision. I’m sure there was a lot of pressure and there of course was the bad publicity but it’s a shame to see the freedom that existed on CL go. I’m sure this is just a start. Also, what an amazing way to start making some more money. But I see this as a perfect opportunity for other people to start their own classifieds. I think that CL’s popularity will be deeply affected not only by this but also what happened because of the CL killer. We should focus less on sex workers as we’re using them as scapegoats. Sex workers are different than spammers. Spammers should be gotten rid of but really, who cares if someone wants to go to a prostitute? If you don’t like it, don’t go to a prostitute. The government should stay out of all of this. Blame the psychopath who did all of this and not the sex workers and really, not CL either. Although it’s sad to CL finally bow down and take it. But really, who cares. The Internet is wide and great and more places like this will pop up and become well known. And if they’re smart, they’ll offer what CL can’t anymore. Free speech and human sexuality are always the scapegoats when people become filled with fear. The politicians exploit that fear but make no mistake, it’s always for the purpose of financial gain. And in this case, it’s an excuse for CL to gain financially as well. I just tried posting an ad in the Adult gigs section, which I’m sure is about to be destroyed as well, and pretty much every word, and I mean even the cleanest of words were blocked. I think this company has become bigger than it’s employees can handle. But yea, oh well.
May 16th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
I seemed to have left something out i wanted to say earlier. I pay for sex. Its called MARRIED…….
May 17th, 2009 at 7:59 am
The reason C L is targeted???
That is easy…. just as in the DUKE case, CL is a bigger target and the AG can make a name for himself.
Jack from Indianapolis
May 17th, 2009 at 9:10 am
What a shame. Once again our public defenders can pound their chests and declare that they have struck a major blow to crime. This is just another example of how law enforcement agencies prefer to target easy yet high profile “criminals”. Instead of tracking down truly dangerous criminals, they can tout that they have saved us from ourselves. And they never had to lift their fat asses off off the stool in the donut shop!
HERE IS THE REALITY: Craigslist, while winking at some of the Erotic Services postings, has probably saved more lives, reduced more drug use, and prevented more STD’s than all of our law enforcement agencies combined!
Because of Craigslist, women no longer needed to walk dangerous streets, drug pushers no longer had a steady stream of users coming in and out of their areas, people met up in safer locations, and had plenty of time to contemplate and utilize safe sex.
Without Craigslist, the streets, hotels, bars, parks, and parking lots will see an immediate increase in illegal loitering, drug use, beatings, and even killings.
But this is what our law enforcement agencies want, a return to the investigation and patrol of simple and easy crimes. It’s a much easier and better way to make the public think that they are truly being served.
May 18th, 2009 at 11:16 am
[…] very serious allegations followed the dramatic changes we implemented last week, widely applauded by other Attorneys General, that go far beyond the policies and procedures you […]
May 18th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
WOW, certain factions of our society are very upset with “copitulation” and “compromise” and the stripping of their “rights”… too bad they aren’t as concerned about contributing more to society than their STDs.
“Thanks a lot CL for making it harder for me to access wholesale sex! Now I’m going to have to pay the real-world retail price of obtaining a life first…you’re stupid doody-heads!” — anonymous (of course)
just a thought,
robedo
May 19th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Why is Craigslist being singled out? There are hundreds of other websites with erotic and adult ads which are far more explicit than the ads on Craigslist. Selective prosecution is ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The AGs don’t have a leg to stand on.
May 19th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Hi Jim,
My only complaint about the new “adult services” section is WHY once again are we all lumped into one category. Surely, there can be some seperation again between m4m, w4m, w4w, m4w… and so on. Wading through categories and postings in which we have no interest is annoying, time consuming, tedious and anti-craigslist. Monitor… yes! But please seperate the categories. Need some help, hell I’m looking for a job!
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I have no opinion of CL’s decision but it is fairly clear to me that CL has been a valuable community resource for a good many years. A decision has been made that has been based on a perceived problem and apparently a good deal of thought and discussion has gone into it…
There is tyranny on all sides of this issue but the notion of balance is understood by those who can see that freedom of expression hangs on one side of the scale and the constraints of public and private responsibility hang on the other…
Those who believe that CL should happily publish unedited any submission it receives, should first go out there to create their own domain. They are certainly free to do that…
That way they can fight their battles for freedom unburdened by public responsibility with their own dime…
May 24th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Now that CL has taken away “erotic services” can anyone tell me the new site to go for these services. I am sure there is some other site out there getting ready to take over for the spineless CL.
May 24th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Jim - Craig and Staff: I’ve had great success with Craigslist in finding a number of helpful situations. Dates, customers, sales items, apartments.
You really need to create better SPAM filtering. You should also set-up a way that when someone Flags an ad, they should have to submit their telephone number and / or e-mail address. Then once it’s verified, then the ad can be deleted by Craigslist Staff.
And about deleting people’s ads — There is a Help section one can go to when they have questions about why their ad was deleted. The so-called Helpful Monitors who actually remove inappropriate ad, are often very Rude to people who are trying to find-out exactly why their ad got cancelled.
Craigslist has one of the best search-engines in the world. You have millions of loyal users around the planet. Is is really too much for your staff to mark-off some sort of check-list as to why someone’s ad was Flagged and Removed.
Something like: Copyrighted Photo/s ; violation of our terms of agreement; overly wordy; too weird; not enough information; you’re running a business; you have over-posted, sounds too much like prostitution, etc.
A system checklist such as I have just proposed would simplify matters for the thousands / millions of us who post our ads over and over again.
Thank You.
May 25th, 2009 at 12:10 am
didn”t some politican from NY,got busted paying a escort for services? where is he to go for new services? sooner or later he will need some services?
May 25th, 2009 at 12:19 am
freedom of expression, if larry flint can do it why not CL? are we not free to express? is freedom of expression not free?
May 25th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Prostitutes, like homosexuals and other minorities before them, have been marginalized and endangered by societie’s intolerance for variation. Politicians such as Henry McMaster foster this attitude of hate against prostitutes. like other politicians have promoted intolerance against homosexuals and blacks to advance their own political agenda. Philip Markoff chose Julissa Brisman for robbery and abuse because he knew that she cold not go to the police for help. Just as Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson chose Matthew Shepherd for the same robbery, abuse and murder. Homosexuals and Blacks of the past could rarely seek help from the police. When a whole group of people are condemned then it is so much easer for the evil of society to abuse individuals in that group. Only when the laws that are designed to subdue the group such as riding in the back of the bus or white only or sodomy or prostitution laws are repealed do the individuals of the group achieve the political power needed to fight back against injustice.
May 26th, 2009 at 7:30 am
There are tons of sites out there that have flat out escort ads on them.
http://www.oncallfantasy.com
http://www.eros.com
Are two I found one in Google and the other in Google Maps. not to mention all the services I found in the yellow pages for Atlanta, GA.
I am glad that you have at least told McJester to piss off. I hate southern baptist like him.
May 28th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Shall we let a S.C. A.G. with alterior motives
curtail freedom of speech for the WHOLE U/S.A?
That’s what happened when the erotic category was discontinued!
It’s not a question of content as in all media there is content that for sure somone would find objectionable,
and I’m SURE theres no “crimes” committed in the great state of South Carolina protected by the the great high and mighty protector of public virtue Mr. McMasters.
I’m equally certain that CL, being self patrolled does a pretty good job of keeping the community safe, but no system is perfect and I think CL has a pretty good history in this regard,
unlike many others in the media, who, with their properties, don’t. It’s because it’s a COMMUNITY, not a terribly capitalistic enterprise, and the founder and operations peole really care, love and protect the family as it is.
To suggest, or even think the erotic category was aiding and abetting something illegal is to ignore the facts: CL took no editorial nor opertional actions to encourage any behavior; It provides a forum for free speech, exchange of ideas and commercial activities.
and DOES NOT CENSOR posts but self regulates itself by commnity involvement, company involvement and vigilance by all against mis-category postings and obvious fraud ,but takes no stand on any content as it should.
Freedom of speech protects ALL speech, not selective speech and CL should of NEVER given in -
Especially as national law specifically protects bulletin boards such as CL -
This is ridiculous!
Sooo… As a public service:
As erotic is ONLY “Banned In The U.S.A.” NOT in other countries on the site, why not use another country, say Mexico for example, to post ads?
Mexico has 15 cities listed, each one becomes a “sister city” (lol) to a U.S.A. city, for example San Francisco = Tijuana, etc, etc, etc…
Brilliantly simple and elegant, and freedom of speech is restored!
I’m curious how Mr. McMasters will react - Will he try to shut down Mexico? China? Costa Rica? Brazil? Canada?
See how totally ridiculous this is?
How will you react CL? With a set of balls and be a defender of the Constitution in all it’s imperfect glory?
Signed:
The Constitutionalist
June 4th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Give CL a break, already, please.
Those zelous South/North Carolia prosecutors have their careers and/or their
Fundamentalist agendas going full-steam with all the accompanying hypocrisy and ignorance in full-view.
They seem of the ideology to likely be opposed to sex education because as we all know, sex education is what causes teenagers to want to do it.
When I look at the quotes in the latest article re: husband hires rapist to rape wife, and this is blamed on CL…and what position would these same characters take regarding gun control in the case of something involving guns (right, that’s never a problem)…Also, comments such as “my children don’t need to see this stuff”…indeed. And is it up to CL to keep your children from looking at personal ads??
June 7th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
By changing the title to “Adult Services” you have only changed a name. It is still the same service, just monitored more.
What’s with charging for advertising on the therapeutic side.
I see ads from Asians obviously into prostitution.
You are just kissing up to the politicians because some nut job was out killing girls.
I too, have met the nicest men over the past three years.
Once a person uses the internet or a cell phone it’s easy to track them.
What crap!
July 19th, 2009 at 11:20 am
the social question is to address the root rather than sensor the publishing of content.
i am sure the ads will not go to the craigslist adult section but some other site…. i am sure that this has happened already.
Does anyone know?